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Thread: eye opener

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ocean City, Maryland
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    951

    Default

    I agree with most of what has been said in this post, except for the what was said about wireburner. he's a kid...so what. There is alot of good info on here and I always pick up stuff from all of you. However, I'm old enough to decide if I want to use your advice or not. I just take what anybody has to say, weed through it and decide if I think it would work or might try it. I also dont want to discourage a 13 yr old from reading, and writing here, I read this post and cant figure out what wireburner said wrong, maybe I should have read some of his others. But if they dont intterest me I dont pay any attention to them. Black wolf, you've had some great posts and I've taken some great info from them, so thanks. also there is nothing wrong with using a little tact when tellling someone something. I agree with not sugar coating things but being dowbn right ignorant is different.
    Just my 2 cents worth, your certainly entitiled to yours. I'd rather spend more time asking questions and reading posts about welding then about the people who post here
    Scott
    HMW [Heavy Metal welding]

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Eastern, MA
    Posts
    2

    Default Here is the way I see it. (really long)

    sorry This would have been a double post of previous comments.


    6g
    Last edited by 6gAws; 08-07-2007 at 08:46 AM. Reason: Double Post

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Deltaville, VA
    Posts
    2,239

    Default

    My observations (LONG):

    Dabar and Black Wolf both share with me the belief that if something's worth doing, it's worth doing right. We three sometimes also share that "LACK OF TACT" character trait. I suspect that comes from prior experience in our given field. I personally come from an arena where bad advice/instruction, got people killed. When we see or read something that's not right, we have no reservations about stating just that. I personally do not feel that I have any obligation to make any poster "feel good" if his/her work does not justify it. I see posts on these boards of posters "showing off" what I consider to be less than stellar work (if they were working for me it would be redone). As long as it's truly a "hobby project" (machine carts, yard art, etc) I have no problem and generally just pass it up. When it goes beyond that (trailers, pressure vessels, safety issues, etc) I feel an obligation to comment--good or bad--with no holds barred.

    Welding/fabrication is serious business and if not performed correctly, has the potential for disaster. There are basic, established standards for this industry which are available to all. It just requires a little basic study on one's part. A basic understanding of metalurgy, electricity, and mixed gas is essential. I'm not big on "regulation" but do feel that it may be time to look at whether we need some form of "basic certification" prior to buying a welder or getting a bottle filled. When I used to teach SCUBA diving, my students had to have a basic certification before they could get their bottles filled. I don't think that anyone would argue that welding has at least as much potential for disaster as SCUBA does. With that said, I wonder how many "hobby welders", who have an ox/ace setup in the garage, understand what the 1/7 rule means (just an example).

    I have no problem helping any "new/learning" (we all are) welder, whether they be 7 or 70. I do have problems with posters who don't take the time to think about what they're trying to say and just begin posting with no thought to grammar, punctuation, or even context. That's just not fair to the other members who have to "interpret/translate" the posting. If you want to "text message" your buddy, that's fine, just don't do it on a message board.

    If a poster asks a question, the answer to which is readily available to him (often his owner's manual), then he should be prepared for flak. Too often the boards are used to compensate for a posters laziness or unwillingness to do a little reading on their own.

    Too many posters constantly post on subjects they obviously know nothing about. To give an example (no names) one poster commented four times about "how to weld an exhaust manifold". When I questioned him if he had ever welded an exhaust manifold, his reply was "NO, but I did just finish a lot of welding on my truck". Hardly qualified to provide guidance. Bottom line, if you don't have something meaningful to add--DON'T. Read the comments from those who do, and learn from it. As I've said many times before, "the Lord gave you one mouth and two ears and meant for them to be used in that proportion".

    As has been said before, the board provides a wealth of information which would be difficult to find elsewhere. There is no substitute for real "hands on practical experience". We'd all be better off if we read more and posted less.

    My .02 Off the Soapbox

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ocean City, Maryland
    Posts
    951

    Default

    Sundown III
    Point well taken! But, I still dont see the need to blast someone for saying something. Correcting whats wrong is cool, I too have worked in a rough enviroment and for the last 12 yrs supervised some real but heads.
    As far as someone using bad advice from here in a critical situation, If they depend on this site, to make the decision for them in how to repair something, they have no business working on it. Apparently it happens though. I take the advice and decide for myself. Its my name on the product. and my insurance

    Just my 4 cents worth [I already gave 2 cents] and I too am off my soap box.
    Lots of smart guys here and I enjoy it alot.

    By the way, that aluma guard you mentioned, for polishing alum.[different post] I had forgot about. I think I've seen that before somewhere. I'll have to find some
    Last edited by HMW; 08-07-2007 at 01:03 PM.
    Scott
    HMW [Heavy Metal welding]

  5. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SundownIII View Post
    I do have problems with posters who don't take the time to think about what they're trying to say and just begin posting with no thought to grammar, punctuation, or even context. That's just not fair to the other members who have to "interpret/translate" the posting. If you want to "text message" your buddy, that's fine, just don't do it on a message board.
    I almost posted a thread about the grammar and punctuation that I see on the Hobart and Miller forums. I really wish people would take the time to attempt to spell something correctly so that it can be read by someone else.

    TIP: If you use the Firefox web browser instead of Internet Explorer it has a feature that catches misspelled words just like if you were typing a paper.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    toronto,ontario
    Posts
    90

    Default general comment

    ive been reading the commentary on this thread, and i have to say i have no problem with kids who are enthused about learning a trade,better than getting themselves into trouble,however i believe it is everyones responsibility to inform and teach others who may not have the experience or knowledge and if you see something unsafe,then its just as much your responsibility to say and do something to make sure that nobody gets hurt.thank god the guy who built that trailer doesnt work at the nuke station but there are standards that we have to meet and they are in place for our safety.ive done aircraft,aerospace and nuclear welding and ill tell you, i didnt get certified over night ,took alot of hard work but was well worth where i am in life now.I havent met anyone who knows it all and we all learnnew things daily, if you have pride in what you do,then naturally you want to make every bead a masterpiece.Good luck to all and keep practicing kids lol

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Greeneville TN,
    Posts
    91

    Default

    I like some of you agree with most everything that has been said, I dont think this thread was started to point out one person nor to discriminate against age. It's more about attitude, willing to learn, and being able to take advice and put it to good use. it's also about more than just welding, like the trailer that started this thread someone could lay perfect beads on every joint and probly guarantee them to hold even when the trailer is all twisted and mangled laying in a ditch somewhere due to it's lack of structural integrity.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    it's also about more than just welding, like the trailer that started this thread someone could lay perfect beads on every joint and probly guarantee them to hold even when the trailer is all twisted and mangled laying in a ditch somewhere due to it's lack of structural integrity.
    well put, fabrication is about more than just a good bead.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    22

    Default Where Do We Go From Here?

    I've already highlighted a few key points made by others in this thread. I've re-read all of the posts here several times, and am moved to follow up on this.

    When I was growing up I had many older people say "I wish I were your age and knew what I know now!" I used to ask them to help me. I'd say that I'm "my age," so why not tell me some of those things? Only one man ever did. He said that the one thing he could tell me was that I should never give a woman a Cadillac. I asked him why, and he said: "When you give her the keys, she'll love you. Then every time she pulls up to a gas pump, she'll hate you."

    So we've lost the tradition of closed-trade apprenticeships. But what about "Big Brother," and friend and mentor? What about taking the time to take someone under your wing to share what you can? Too demanding? Too time-consuming? In my earlier post I said something about "invitation." Does this ring a bell for anyone?

    Suppose we look at everyone here as a potential co-worker, or employee, or employer (supervisor). Do we want to write off people as Bozos, and wait until we have to fire them? Or would we rather help them develop their potential? Mind you, that doesn't mean we have to give up our right to suggest that someone not give up their day job!

    I happen to have noticed another thread that worked very well (in my view). Someone said he was being asked to convert a propane tank (? have to look it up!), and he expressed doubts about it. Others responded, mostly in positive and constructive ways, discouraging the idea. The poster concluded that his first misgivings were well founded: it was not a good idea. Most of the responses were solid, common sense replies with clear reasoning to support them. No one attacked the original poster. Many of us had an opportunity to learn something valuable without it costing a life or a limb . . . and without feeling put down for posing a valid question.

    Joe

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Grande Prairie, Alberta Canada
    Posts
    729

    Default

    I decided to return to this thread to post for 2 reasons:

    1) To thank all of our members that voiced their views about my rough treatment of Wireburner. I do value your opinions and your points of view. No, really. I'm being serious. Do I take back what I said - No. Do I still feel the same - Yes. Do I possibly regret my choice of words seeing as he is only 13? Yes and no. Yes if viewed that he is only 13. No if viewed that he is an active member same as any other and I treated him as such. I would like to state for the record that wireburner has done nothing wrong to me, nor was I angry with HIM specifically. I was venting my frustration with all the issues of this forum that we are now discussing, and unfortunately Chris ended up in my gun sights. For focusing my discontent on him, and being brutally straightforward to the point of being hurtful, I was in the wrong. I will try to strike up a correspondance with Chris when some time has passed and maybe he'll be willing to discuss this off forum.

    2) To thank all the members that have come forward with their opinions of what is right and wrong with this forum, and to those willing to put forward ideas to change it, to improve it, and make it what it can be. We have lost too many of our senior members lately, mostly due to frustration. Now is the time to let it all hang out, and get it off your chests. Tell us what you like. Tell us what you don't like. Now is as good of a time as any to get all of this out in the open so it can be discussed and dealt with.

    I believe in this type of open forum. I believe in what it can do, and what it can mean in terms of learning and education for our younger or newer members to the wonderful world of welding. I've already stated what I believe is wrong. I have stressed in thread after thread the need for proper welding education and safety. The importance of mentorship. I'm not affraid to lay it on the line, dig in, and fight for what I believe in. How about you??? This forum is good, but it can be GREAT. Let's find out how we can get there, working together. Maybe then we can put an end to all the unspoken animosity and frustration that seems to be affecting many of our members.

    Later,
    Jason

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