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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lake Jackson, Texas
    Posts
    12

    Default Best welding rod (tig) for welding 4130 chromoly tubing

    Does anyone know the best (strongest) rod for welding 4130 Chromoly tubing. I am building mini sprint chassis.


    Thanks,

    Zeb

  2. #2

    Default

    ER80S-D2

    Lots of stuff here on that subject.

    Andy

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    836

    Default

    Er80S-D2 is used in aircraft weldments that are heat treated, ER70S-2 is used for non heat treated. Of course standard practice involves post weld tempering or oven treating.
    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

    Miller Dynasty 300DX
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    184

    Default

    Zeb,
    You will not get agreement on the answer to your question.
    Some use ER70 others use ER80. On the frame itself I doubt
    you'll be able to do post weld heat treating.
    I use ER80 and don't believe in the practice of torch annealing
    the welded joints. I do use lowest heat needed an don't "hurry"
    the weld along.
    Opinions vary....do lots of reading and make your choice.
    Will also mention that the Lincoln motorsports welding program
    falls in the ER80 camp.
    Dave P.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East Tennessee
    Posts
    614

    Default

    Murf McKinney who builds most of the NHRA Top Fuel chassis uses ER80S D2 and doesn't stress relieve all the welds . If it's good enough for 8000-10000 horsepower I'd say it would work for you .

  6. #6

    Default

    ER80S-D2 is a higher strength steel filler that contains 1/2% of Molybdenum and more closely matches the strength of the 4130 than the ER70. You can stress relieve the weld joint if you wish but even some of the top drag chassis builders don't do it. Heat treating is only somewhat useful and relies on how much base metal is diluted with the filler. Normally, heat treating is done with 4130 filler and on thicker weldments. Keep your arc lengths as close to the joint as you can and do not overheat by using too much amperage but make sure the toes of the weld are tied in properly. With a mini-sprint chassis and the amount of triangulation that is used in the tube layout, you should be fine.

    Like Dave said.
    You will get many answers here....

    Andy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Showdog75 View Post
    Murf McKinney who builds most of the NHRA Top Fuel chassis uses ER80S D2 and doesn't stress relieve all the welds . If it's good enough for 8000-10000 horsepower I'd say it would work for you .
    Funny, notice where that got them? Ever see the failed welds on the Force teams cars? Hmmmm.
    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

    Miller Dynasty 300DX
    Miller Dynasty 200DX
    Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
    Miller Millermatic Passport

    Miller Spot Welder
    Motor-Guard stud welder

    Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    539

    Default

    You can use coat hangers...

    The important point here is that on a race vehicle, the design is light weight, close to the limit of strength / failure. Some, but not a lot of "extra" safety margin.

    Sooooo, what that means is, you race, you inspect, you race, you inspect, repeat until the frame is wore out...

    Where folks get into trouble is they under design, never inspect, or forget that life cycle deal.

    If you want to be competative, weight is an issue, having a vehicle break up under you or worse yet, not protect you when you really need it like when you tangle with a wall or 3 or 4 other vehicles.

    Just kiddding about the coat hangers by the way.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trstek View Post
    You can use coat hangers...

    The important point here is that on a race vehicle, the design is light weight, close to the limit of strength / failure. Some, but not a lot of "extra" safety margin.

    Sooooo, what that means is, you race, you inspect, you race, you inspect, repeat until the frame is wore out...

    Where folks get into trouble is they under design, never inspect, or forget that life cycle deal.

    If you want to be competative, weight is an issue, having a vehicle break up under you or worse yet, not protect you when you really need it like when you tangle with a wall or 3 or 4 other vehicles.

    Just kiddding about the coat hangers by the way.

    Coat hangers??? where the heck are you finding metal ones now-days??! We always called them RG-Black. However if given the choice between a coat hanger from 1940, and filler metal from china.......I would trust the coat hanger to at least be consistent!
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

    Miller Dynasty 300DX
    Miller Dynasty 200DX
    Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
    Miller Millermatic Passport

    Miller Spot Welder
    Motor-Guard stud welder

    Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    539

    Default

    I've got a closet full of them, first Grandpa's old clothes, then some of my pop's.

    In years past we used them often on exhaust pipes with gas heat.

    They actually work pretty good.

    Back on subject, inspect, inspect and then clean and inspect. Think it is great the project is moving forward, no one teaches maintenance any more...

    Hey Aaron, thought that would get a rise out of you

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