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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    9

    Default I need help with water torches

    Hello:

    I realize this may not be the correct forum to ask this; but I have been a bit
    frustrated lately trying to find an affordable water torch that can handle up to
    about 1/16th to 1/8th inch steel and brass.

    I want to get into metal art and jewelry making. I am planning to purchase a
    plasma cutter and Dynasty TIG welder for my larger work.

    I am in a situation where I cannot have any flammable gas or oxygen tanks. Argon
    for the TIG machine is okay as well as a compressor for the cutter.

    So, I figure that a water torch would be the answer. However, I have been all but
    laughed out of the places that sell them because they say that what I want to do
    is way too much. Someone claimed 'the transformer would be too big for what
    you want to do' whatever that means.

    I notice that Miller does not make them. Why?

    What is it that I don't understand with the technology? Why is it such a niche
    for small jewelry? Isn't it a good alternative to dirty, dangerous acetylene? Or
    is there a gaping hole in this technology that I am missing?

    Thank you for your help.

    Truly,

    Mark Allyn
    Portland, Oregon

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Suffield, Ohio
    Posts
    344

    Default

    Welcome to the board.
    About how much money do you want to spend, and how many hours a day do you plan to weld? Which Dynasty do plan on getting?
    I personally like the Weldcraft Tig torches.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    9

    Default

    I plan to unvest up to $3,000 for a good system that can not only handle up to 1/8th and 3/16th steel, but could be cranked down to only a few amps.

    I plan to try to do brazing with the TIG (melting only the filler; not the base metals). I plan to do this because I may be joining dissimilar metals. I plan to do artsy stuff (such as table lamps and light fixtures) out of scrap metal and bicycle parts. I also have some designs of jewelry from old bicycle parts. This requires me to be flexible in what metals I need to join, but on the other hand, I don't care if the weld does not pass inspection. It's not for structure; it's for art.

    Mark

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    i have had the spectrum 125-c for a wile now and am realy happy with its performance in the size you are looking for. its simple to operate i added a foot controle to alow me to start and stop it with my foot so i could hold the torch diferently as i do a lot of artsy fartsy stuff and hitting the triger was not always the way i needed to hold it.
    its got its own built in air suply and runs off 120V so it can be run almost anywhere. you might look into one of them. i'm going to be upgrading to the spectrum 375 so i can do some 1/2" stuff for targets or i would still be happy with the 125c. its been great and still works like ne, just my needs have changed so i need to go bigger but for your use some thing like it may be a good option.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Suffield, Ohio
    Posts
    344

    Default

    I would try this website out.http://store.cyberweld.com To get an idea of what you might want and about how much it will cost.
    My suggestion would be the Dynasty200DX, the Coolmate3, Weldcraft Tig Torch Pkg-250 Amp Water cooled, and a 14 pin foot pedal. Frrom Cyberweld it would run over your budget by almost a $1000 tho.
    You can run with millers contractor kit that would run around $3300, it comes with a air-cooled torch that I think is good upped to a 150amps, and you can save for abit and get the watercooled setup later on, cause it would just add on to it later on.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    MintSScout, you have to remember torches are always rated at 100% duty cycle. so the air cooled #17 150amp torch is good for more amps than the dyn200 can make. the dyn200 is at like 40% duty cycle at 150amps. so keep that in mind when shopping for torches.
    but i think the water torch he is speaking of is to cut with not to keep the TIG torch cool.i could be wrong though. i'll go re-read his post.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Lightbulb

    i think he wants a water to hydrogen converter torch setup.

    as for the transformer being to big for what you want to do i suspect ts do to the amount of power needed to produce the hydrogen in high enough quantity's to feed a torch to cut 1/8" and up. again just guessing here but i think its about the production needs.
    i would just go for a small plasma like my spectrum 125C its small and quiet. heck you could set it on the kitchen counter and cut in the sink if you wanted. your wife would hardly hear it in the next room wile watching TV. definitely no way the neighbors would know or care.
    start running a air compressor capable of keeping up with even the spectrum375 and you are talking serious noise. i don't know for shore but i think the spec125's are still under $1,000 or close to that. so you would have to pair it up with a TA-185 instead of a dyn200 to stay at the $3,000 mark. or you could look at a maxstar 150, that could get you in under the $3,000 mark and keep them both working off 120V power. you kitchen will never be the same..........

    P.S. keep in mind the TA-185 is a 240V only TIG/stick welder. so if you only have 120V available you will have to stick to the maxstar or dyn200. if you have 240V and about 60amps to give it the syncrowave 200 would be a much less expensive option over the dyn200. if you are just planing to braze with it instead of TIG weld you might as well just stick to the maxstar(DC only), no need for AC unless you want to TIG weld aluminum and do it right not as a braze.
    Last edited by fun4now; 08-01-2007 at 12:39 AM.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ventura, California
    Posts
    102

    Default Dynasty 2000 rocks

    The Dynasty 2000 will handle whatever metal you need to weld. It can be run at a few amps in case you need to do thin metal. You can adjust the frequency of the arc to get deep penetration. Since you are not doing production work (hours of high amp TIG at a stretch), you won't need a water cooler. An air cooled TIG torch will work fine.

    Don't worry about those guys at the shop with the over-active sense of humor. They are used to guys wanting big machines to weld big chunks of metal. When it comes to smaller stuff, especially TIG, most shops don't even have one on display, let alone know their capability. I've gotten the, "Our TIG guy is out to lunch right now. Come back in an hour" line before. One guy even admitted he had never run TIG before, as he's trying to sell me a $3,500 TIG rig. Ask your friends who they buy from. Not just the shop, but the name of the sales rep. Once you establish a rapport with that person, they will cut you deals and you will be a happy camper.

    Quote Originally Posted by markallyn View Post
    I plan to unvest up to $3,000 for a good system that can not only handle up to 1/8th and 3/16th steel, but could be cranked down to only a few amps.

    I plan to try to do brazing with the TIG (melting only the filler; not the base metals). I plan to do this because I may be joining dissimilar metals. I plan to do artsy stuff (such as table lamps and light fixtures) out of scrap metal and bicycle parts. I also have some designs of jewelry from old bicycle parts. This requires me to be flexible in what metals I need to join, but on the other hand, I don't care if the weld does not pass inspection. It's not for structure; it's for art.

    Mark

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Suffield, Ohio
    Posts
    344

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fun4now View Post
    MintSScout, you have to remember torches are always rated at 100% duty cycle. so the air cooled #17 150amp torch is good for more amps than the dyn200 can make. the dyn200 is at like 40% duty cycle at 150amps. so keep that in mind when shopping for torches.
    but i think the water torch he is speaking of is to cut with not to keep the TIG torch cool.i could be wrong though. i'll go re-read his post.
    I didn't even think about that.
    That hydrogen convertor thing just went way my head and makes me very confused.

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