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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

    Default Built an Engine, Got Married and made it back home!

    EDIT:although there's a lot of description of my car the longblock was the only part i built and installed in the 4 days before leaving omaha in the following , just so it's clear i didn't build a complete car or have 20k to throw away in one year..this has beena work in progress for 10 years now.. I got the car as a 12k mile 1 year lease termination..and in the last 2 years the complete driveline has been replaced with upgraded parts as well

    Well, several different things went on all at once for me this Christmass/New Years week.

    I had hydrolocked my car's engine back in September and just around christmass I finally got the block, crank, Rods and pistons back from the machine shop and began assembly a day or 2 before christmass day.

    Went through **** as i was set for a departure date of 12/28/08 to go to TX to get hitched to my woman who would have already been my wife if the USAF hadn't changed a date on us.

    Anyway... The car ...

    97 Mitsubishi Eclipse - 4G63T engine 9:1 forged Wiseco pistons, Eagle H-Beam Rods, ACL race bearings, 264/272 camshaft combo, Ti retiners and brian crower valve springs, Converted to run on E85 (this stuff's better than C16 all day at 1/4th the price easy) And swapped out the heavy steel flywheel for an 8lb unit from Fidanza, it's aluminum iwth a replaceable friction surface so it would hoipefully never need replaced, only serviced.

    All controlled by a Haltech engine management system..Not to mention the thousand other little things and the To4e 57 trim turbo (soon to be a holset HX35), Spearco front mount intercooler and gobs and gobs of other little engine bolt-ons.

    The transmission.. Team Rip Engineering Stage 2.5 W/ Quaiffe ATB Limited slip diferential

    Before the parts added in this post the car was running all the same external mods not mentioned , this includes the tranny.

    My previous best was a 12.08x @ 119 MPH spinning slicks all through 2nd gear. Going out and oping to break deep into the 11's this year and get kicked from teh track for not having a roll cage yet (the only reason i'd ever like to be kicked off the track from racing)

    BUilt this in 4 days and put the motor in in time to get to TX on the 30th, see my woman, and get hitched. ANd since the car was done it wasn't even on my mind and she didn'thave to hear about it (win - win situation)

    After spending 6 days with my now "official" lovely wife, i drove back from lacklund AFB in san antonio TX, to my front door in omaha straight through 957 miles, and made it in 13.5 hours ( 2 full hours under mapquest's ETA while following their directions - another win.. i love racing the clock )

    Now that i'm back, i'm tucking wires, cleaning up and changing the things i felt needed tweaking while driving it this week. I have this strange lack of recolection of the "3rd leg" on the oil pump pick-up (since my friend took the pan from the old motor and swapped it onto the new short block i can't recall for sure if the 3rd bolt was ever put on and torqed) So i will be double checking tomorrow... Also busted a hole in my flex section in the exhaust so that will be fixed tomorrow too...

    Then hopefully in the next few month before i move i will go break 450HP to the wheel on all turbo...then i want to crack anywhere past 500 WHP with no more than the addition of a 75 - 100 shot of laughing gas... All these new mods with all new suspension and driveline should make my car very very fun this summer..Best part is that it looks about as stcok as they come (only lowered about an inch) and the only give away is the intercooler shining in the mouth of the bumper

    HOpefully i'll get pics up soon.. And I wil post dyno vids and sheets when i make it.

    Oh... Forgot to mention .. Old HP figures on a mustang dyno at the wheels

    PUmp gas 92 octane 332hp/312lb.ft torque ...Then the same combo on E85 and way over working the turbo (and i mean way past efficient) boasted 431hp 396lb/ft .... Trying to get teh 450whp with out stressing the new compressor...

    i'll update as i can.. and thanks for all teh help and suppor that came from this place and it's members!!!!
    Last edited by turboglenn; 01-06-2009 at 07:33 AM.
    Dynasty 200DX
    Hobart Handler 135
    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
    Hypertherm Powermax 45
    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

  2. #2

    Default

    pretty nice setup, and congrats on the new ball and chain.

    How do you like e85? I'm considering it, but there is only one place locally I can get it. I'm not sold on running it if I can't get it all over.
    Millermatic 180 Auto Set

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

    Default

    E85 is like nothing you've ever ran.. More torque, more timing and leaner AFR's with out detonation. I get a better timing curve on E85 than i do on C16 with a J&S safeguard knock sensing system monitoring the engine for noise/knock, i can on average gain 3-5* advance over the C16 setup and run a full point leaner on AFR (on c16 my car likes 11.5 - 12:1, on E85 it likes 12.5:1 all day at 30psi and has even ran as lean as 13.2:1 without detonating

    I can't say enough good about ethanol, you'll need to upgrade your fuel flow by at least 30% to stay at the same power level you currently are at, but your torque numbers will skyrocket and you can extract a tad more top end HP by adding timing and leaning her out a bit

    My last motor was 7.8:1 CR and i was getting 27-30* advance on a hemispheical head at 28 - 30 psi, and i didn't have to "build up" to that timing. I have 23* dialed in at peak torque and before at every pressure area above 10psi (and more timing at 10 adn under). A lot of turbo cars can only deal with 9 -10 degreesat their peak torque areas as they are more prone to detonating there but E85 just shines through. I havent' put this engien on e85 yet, but that's what it was built for by using 9:1's on a high boost turbo application..

    They say when running ethanol or methanol that 10:1 is the new 9:1 as far as what you can run static without issues of detonating. And at a buck fifteen a gallon the stuff just can't be beat. I was a skeptic, then a full blown corn juice addict

    i'm only back on pumo fuels becasue my car doesn't like cold starts in sub zero weather adn it doesn't take aslong for the car to come up to temp on petrol.

    Even alcohol injection is kick A$$... I was running near similar boosts and timing with just the addition of that in the beggining, I could do a 3rd gear highway pull, stop and get out and the methanol injection would have the intake manifold frosted over from it's heat absorbtion

    When i started running it i only knew 2 places to buy it in town, and it was worth planning my weekly fill up around getting off on the right exit friday evening after work, now stations are popping up everywhere that have it
    Last edited by turboglenn; 01-09-2009 at 09:53 PM.
    Dynasty 200DX
    Hobart Handler 135
    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
    Hypertherm Powermax 45
    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Belle Plaine Iowa
    Posts
    270

    Default

    Im not sure(meaning I dont know at all) about E85 but methanol requires EXTREME cylinder pressures to detonate. You can have 12:1 compression on a car with an overdriven 14-71 blower. Ethanol has less oxygen in it than methanol so Im sure its less tolerant and requires more exact tuning.
    Who do you call when the lawmakers ignore the law?

    Miller AC/DC Thunderbolt 225
    Miller 180 w/Autoset
    Old cutting torch on LPG

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyingpig View Post
    I'm not sure(meaning I dont know at all) about E85 but methanol requires EXTREME cylinder pressures to detonate. You can have 12:1 compression on a car with an overdriven 14-71 blower. Ethanol has less oxygen in it than methanol so Im sure its less tolerant and requires more exact tuning.
    Man, 12:1 static CR WOW! that's high for a blown motor, but i can believe it on alcohol based fuels, something about them is just great. Like i said, i can get more timing and more torque from E85 than i can from 12 dollar a gallon C16 leaded race fuel.

    And to be honest, E85 is one of the most forgiving fuels I've ever tuned on. IT requires a lot more ignition advance to take advantage of it's slow burn, but will hardly detonate at all (unless your tune is way way off course)

    I've gone as lean as 13:1 under high boost (~25psi) with ignition timing in the 23-27* areas and still did not detonate. MY pump had run out of flow. I had thought it was injectors and had just upgraded them to 1kcc/min units from 720cc/min ones only to find it was the pump ( but i had a new one waiting to go in as i knew they both needed upgrading). Now i have the better pump installed and am working on a dual pump setup as well, placing them in parallel instead of in-line with each other so i can up the volume quite a bit to be able to handle the new goals and feed the nitrous system when it's on as well.

    I now have a new ECU (haltech E6x, upgraded since this post due to static electricity killing my prior e6k unit) and it is mapped with 2 sets of maps (one for alcohol one for pump fuel) and i can switch them by simply grounding an input via a toggle switch. On the previous ECU i had to load the computer with the corresponding map when changing fuels. Now i just flip a switch and to boot, i have a trim knob on the column that's able to globally adjust fuel +/- 12% or 50% (depending on what i set it to do) i usually keep it at 12%, this allows me to temporarily compensate for "mixes" of fuels during the transition from one to another.

    I'm in the process of securing a new turbocharger better suited towards a daily driven car but still capable of my power requirements/goals of 4-425 on the turbo alone ( a 20g with a Garrett T3 exhaust flange on it). Then i will use somewhere between a 75 and 100 HP worth of laughing gas to break the 500HP mark on the chassis dyno.

    So all in all when it's finally finished and fine tuned i plan on no less than 400hp on e85 daily and being able to break the 500WHP mark with a blast from the bottle.

    EDIT: So far everything on this engine has been performing better than i expected which is good! My current turbo has the inducer blades rounded off from the water the motor took on that bent the rod in the last one causing this whole build. And even though i have the wastegate all the way down (15psi) and now have a positive track diff (Quaife LSD) I'm still spinning the tires in 3rd gear on the streets at anywhere near 3/4 throttle it's a fun ride to say the least. This summer with the laughing gas, a set of new M&H Racemaster slicks and a tank full of E85 i plan on breaking deep into the 11's and then being told i have to build a roll cage if i want to race anymore at an NHRA sanctioned track

    I figure I'll dial it down and sandbag until i get my launches perfected then I'm going to crank up the wick and let'er go!

    I've run numerous 12.0xx passes on my old setup and i should easily kill those numbers this season as long as i can drive it properly. I'm going to be happy with 11. anything, but am really really hoping to break 11.30's or faster at 125+ mph, since I've already done a 12.08 at 119mph with an open diff and a completely stock motor internally with nothing but a bunch of bolt-ons (turbo and management included)

    Now I've got everything from a built trans, head , short-block, new fuels, new computer, new cams, motor mounts..etc..etc... too much to list, but it should shatter the old numbers with ease
    Last edited by turboglenn; 01-12-2009 at 05:37 PM.
    Dynasty 200DX
    Hobart Handler 135
    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
    Hypertherm Powermax 45
    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    26

    Default

    I'm assuming this is a GSX with those kind of numbers...sounds great.

    I've thought about tuning with e85 on my setup, but dont have the time to get to the dyno/street tune/ BS. I dont know if my fuel system would support it or not. I have a walbro 255lph pump, 8an ss feed lines, 7/8" bored fuel rail (golden eagle), 750cc RC's, 1:1 FPR, and 6an return. Should do it...I pushing mid 60% duty cycle at 360whp on 93 octane (11lbs boost) on a frank 2.4L k20/k24 with 10:1 c/r.

    Theres a guy I know with a t67 on a log manifold on a 2.0L (K20a2) pushing +600whp on e85

    27 degrees at 25lbs with 13:1 a/f and no knock is insane...what kind of resolution does that Haltech EMS have??

    Also, do the 4g63's have a pilot bushing? Asking for a buddy, I havn't looked at his car yet, but he said he's getting tranny whine after he reinstalled his transmission.

    matt

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    26

    Default

    heres one of the top guys with a k20

    793whp 533wtq
    NandoFab/St00pidfast Stage 8 kit
    Full-Race undivided single wastegate manifold
    Precision PT67 p-trim dual ball bearing .70AR comp. .81AR turb
    Hondata KPRO
    33 psi
    Dynojet 224
    Jason Herrera (St00pid)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFurSMQgBqM . Hes currently over 830whp

    A link to some of the other guys dynos (which dont mean crap if you dont know how to drive )
    http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=544108

    They still dont have any thing on the 4g63 platforms (eclipse, talons, evo, etc.)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kracker View Post
    I'm assuming this is a GSX with those kind of numbers...sounds great.

    I've thought about tuning with e85 on my setup, but dont have the time to get to the dyno/street tune/ BS. I dont know if my fuel system would support it or not. I have a walbro 255lph pump, 8an ss feed lines, 7/8" bored fuel rail (golden eagle), 750cc RC's, 1:1 FPR, and 6an return. Should do it...I pushing mid 60% duty cycle at 360whp on 93 octane (11lbs boost) on a frank 2.4L k20/k24 with 10:1 c/r.

    Theres a guy I know with a t67 on a log manifold on a 2.0L (K20a2) pushing +600whp on e85

    27 degrees at 25lbs with 13:1 a/f and no knock is insane...what kind of resolution does that Haltech EMS have??



    Also, do the 4g63's have a pilot bushing? Asking for a buddy, I havn't looked at his car yet, but he said he's getting tranny whine after he reinstalled his transmission.

    matt
    NO, there's no pilot bushing on the 4g63 motor (just a machined guide in the flywheel) And i wish i could say it's a GSX... BUT... it's a GS-T.. i have a huge set of slicks and being FWD provides for more challenges (nad a bit scarier ride past the 400 WHP barrier), and so far is the only reason i'm not already in the 11's

    I"ve got a built TRE stage 2.5 trans with a quife LSD in it now so even street tires are hooking better than i was while "peg-legging" on slicks

    i've got a friend whith a GSX pushing just over 700AWHP now and that thing is a beast.. i just talked him into an E85 conversion as well

    That fuel setup is plenty, there's a guy pushing 445 hp from an 18g-6sl2 turbo on a galant VR-4 and a single wally adn a set of 750 injectors.

    I was able to get to the 25-27psi range on 720s (depending on how lean i wanted to be) but i try and stick in the 11.5 - 12 range just for safety.

    one thing i'm noticing though is that this high compression motor does NOT like richness. at low 11's mid to high 10's for AFR it would pop, miss and spit on the first two gears (not to mention go through them in a hearbeat) but now that i've leaned it down to the 11.8 - 12.0:1 range it's revving cleanly in all gears while i make my pump gas map. AS soon as the weather is warm i'm going back to E85

    If you do decide to run a few tanks of E85 change your fuel filter after the third tank as it will be close to clogging from all the crap the alcohol cleans from your fuel system ( i bought a cleanable unit from fuel-lab) I'm only running one wally 255hp in tank, and have -6 lines to the rail and -6 retunring from the AFPR. I am going to be adding a second 255 in tank as soon as i figure out teh best way to do it without spending 200 bucks on AN fittings (i'm trying to find some good tubing to make my own hangar and "Y" pipe all remaining in tank)

    So you got picks of your dual setup? I don't want to run them dual in line, i want parallel pumps to optimize flow, not just flow under pressure.

    part of my living is made tuning and fabbing stuff for cars (most if it really) and i pretty much have to stay on top of trying the newest things (like an e85 conversion ) to aid in the never ending quest for "more power" from the customer.. i can truely say E85 is a dream fuel (about 1/6th the cost of c16 and more effective at detonation resistance with high timing and more forgiving at leaner AFR's)

    I could go on and on about it,, i mean i thought alcohol injection was the ticket until i tried my first tank of E85.. and i was hooked! Don't get me wrong alky injectionis still great and i'll still turn it on when i'm running pump fuels but it's nothing compared to what filling up with some good old corn mash wil do for your car (providing you've got an ECU or some means to take advantage of it)
    Dynasty 200DX
    Hobart Handler 135
    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
    Hypertherm Powermax 45
    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

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