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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    106

    Default Water to air intercooler

    I'm employed as a fabricator/welder in the motorsports industry and have been involved in many an interesting project but somehow or other I got involved in intercooling for turbo/supercharged engines. First I was involved in air to air units but they are so cheap now from China and they don't really interest me any more.
    A while ago I got involved with welding a water to air intercooler using cylindrical Laminova cores from Sweden and in testing so far it is exceeding our expectations.
    Below are some pics of our next Laminova project on a 6 cylinder Nissan 4.2 litre (253 cubic inch) turbo diesel engine.
    We have incorporated it into the inlet manifold and so far we are pretty happy with how it's turned out.
    There is quite a large space between where it curls over the rocker cover (valve cover for my USA friends) and the inlet manifold but this is to allow for the diesel fuel rails, injectors and glow plugs.
    We have made the snout so we can unbolt it for access to rocker arms in case of tappet adjustment and also access to the injectors etc.
    Regards Andrew from Oz.






    We are tig welders, gravity doesn't worry us.

    Miller Dynasty 350 Tig.
    OTC AVP300 AC/DC 300 amp hybrid wave Tig.
    Kemppi MLS 2300 230amp AC/DC Tig for home with all the bells and whistles.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    106

    Default

    A couple more pics including one showing the construction of the cores, and before you say "you can't flow air through those" take it from me you can
    Regards Andrew from Oz.




    We are tig welders, gravity doesn't worry us.

    Miller Dynasty 350 Tig.
    OTC AVP300 AC/DC 300 amp hybrid wave Tig.
    Kemppi MLS 2300 230amp AC/DC Tig for home with all the bells and whistles.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    258

    Default

    awill4x4,
    Keep us posted on how this works out. What is your air temp coming out of the turbo? and what is your incoming water temp to the heat exchanger?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

    Default

    I too would like to know pre and post intercooler temps. I've been thinking about building and A/W cooler, but have been using no intercooler and alcohol for the main fuel while utilizing methanol injected both pre-turbo and post turbo/pre-intercooler to bring my temps well below ambient.. And no intercooler and way less charge piping has resulted in great spool up.

    Another added benefit is that when cruising and the turbo is not spooling and i'm not dirving with the meth injection kicked in, i get a nice WARM inlet charge that makes driveability unbelievably nice.. It was like i was back on a factory ECU and intake system all over again

    I'm running a Haltech E6k on a mitsu 4g63, Ethanol as a main fuel and methanol as a "cooling aid".. CHarge pipe runs direct from the turbo outlet to the Throttle body with nothing more than a BOV in the middle and a couple of methanol jets placed strategically.


    I'm now back to running an intercooler (air to air and only for now), but am still utilizing methanol injection on pump fuels for the winter season (ethanol and methanol as striagth fuels are jsut too dang hard to start in sub-zero temps)


    Also, are the parts you're using "off the shelf" items or are those cooling cores completely custom (never seen one like that) I know the intake is custom (derr) but just wondering about those fittings... I have a nice spearco core that i could gut and cover to use with a few of those inside. Only thing i don't like about W/A inter-cooling is that after a good amount of city driving heat soak becomes a HUGE factor in all the systems i've worked with..Seems as soon as the ice or Dry-Ice melts down and the water rises to the ambient temps of the engine bay, performance suffers more than anything. I've seen warmed up W/A systems putting air into the motor that's well over 180-200 degrees F. , while a similar engine with a similar cooling ducts using only an A-to-A cooler kept them decently mild.

    Well, i can ramble on and on about turbo charged cars, cooling and pressure ratio theories, but since this is a welding forum i'll stop here.... Might pick up in another post though :P
    Last edited by turboglenn; 11-21-2008 at 10:36 PM.
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  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by turboglenn View Post
    Also, are the parts you're using "off the shelf" items or are those cooling cores completely custom (never seen one like that)
    My under hood intake temp pre intercooler sit around 50C or 122F running around town post intercooler 26C or 78F this is about 6 degrees above ambient. That is running around off boost been good With air been draw through the snorkel.

    As for the cores search Ebay for Laminova

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8

    Default

    definitely looks awesome awill...keep up the good work and let us know how the BMW turns out

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Finney, on our previous 4 core one that is on an injected petrol turbo Toyota Landcruiser we were getting air temps of 82C (we use Celsius here in Oz) out of the turbo at 8-9 psi boost and a maximum of 32C post intercooler with a rise of 5-6 degrees C above ambient air temp going into the turbo.
    So we are knocking 50 degrees C out and the temp flat lines at 32C post intercooler so we are very happy with the results so far.
    Our next I/cooler projects in the pipeline are a 4 core one for a turbo BMW 3 series with a 3.5 litre 6 cylinder engine in it.
    A 6 or 8 core for an insane 2 litre BMW with a 4 cylinder big boost engine in it.
    And either a 12 or 16 core monster for a twin turbo'd Chev LS1 in a 52 Mercury.
    (We've got lots of room to play with there )
    Regards Andrew from Oz
    We are tig welders, gravity doesn't worry us.

    Miller Dynasty 350 Tig.
    OTC AVP300 AC/DC 300 amp hybrid wave Tig.
    Kemppi MLS 2300 230amp AC/DC Tig for home with all the bells and whistles.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3

    Default

    PWR is in your backyard, and you went to Sweden for cores? Weird mate. http://www.pwr.com.au/#view=products&s=is

    We put one of their straight through liquid to air intercoolers with a moderate (12"*15") heat exchanger in a Toyota starlet, and were getting condensation on the TB forming on a 30+*c ambient day. The straight through design may help further reduce spool times and charge pressure drop over the manifold design you've got.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Guy View Post
    PWR is in your backyard, and you went to Sweden for cores? Weird mate. http://www.pwr.com.au/#view=products&s=is

    We put one of their straight through liquid to air intercoolers with a moderate (12"*15") heat exchanger in a Toyota starlet, and were getting condensation on the TB forming on a 30+*c ambient day. The straight through design may help further reduce spool times and charge pressure drop over the manifold design you've got.
    Yes I've used PWR products and their radiators are pretty good but I'm not a fan of the barrel coolers. The ones I've seen don't cool well at all with quite a large pressure drop across the core.
    Have a look at the design and see just how poorly the number of tubes fit into a cylinder, they would have been better off using a rectangular shape to maximise the number of tubes.
    Another problem with them is the control of water flow with the water meandering its way through the barrel and tending to dam in some areas.
    They market them well and have good hype but the results aren't there.
    Regards Andrew from Oz.
    We are tig welders, gravity doesn't worry us.

    Miller Dynasty 350 Tig.
    OTC AVP300 AC/DC 300 amp hybrid wave Tig.
    Kemppi MLS 2300 230amp AC/DC Tig for home with all the bells and whistles.

  10. #10

    Default

    Very interesting. My cousin has a turbo charged 03 Ram pickup 392 stroked with a (now) undersized turbo that is really pushing high temps due to the compression ratios. He uses Meth injection to keep the inlet temps down and its working really well. Inter-coolers for drag racing are tough due to heat soaking but the meth has been really good for keeping the inlet temps down. A while back he was mentioning how he has seen a new design from FORD that may show promise. They are using a direct liquid injection Propane system and apparently the HP is unreal due to the Net Refrigeration effect gained by the Latent heat properties of Propane.

    (BTW im a Refrigeration Mechanic, Refrigeration Engineer to you Auzies )

    Do you have any data on these cores? I love the idea. Good work Looks awesome as well

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