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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Atl, Ga
    Posts
    371

    Default Any suggestions for a versatile gas and wire setup? (MIG)

    I have an older MillerMatic 200 and I would like a gas that I can do both short circuit and spray transfer with. My local welding supply has recommended an 85/15 Argon/CO2 mix as a starting point. He says 10% CO2 would be better for spray, but short circuit transfer performance suffers with <15% CO2 mixes.

    I'm running .035 wire, but I'm planning on trying a roll of .030" to see how that works. I've learned .035" with 75/25 will not go into spray. Is there any particular mix of gas and wire that is well suited to both transfer methods? 3/8" steel is usually the thickest I ever generally need to weld. Anything under 1/8" I usually TIG, so the application range I'm looking at is mostly for use on 1/8 to 3/8" steel.

    I need some advice from somebody who has had experience with a similar machine to narrow down the field of options. I can't afford to experiment with a dozen different combinations of gas mixes and wire right now.

    Any experiences/alternatives/suggestions are greatly appreciated

    Thanks, Matt

    Edit: I accidentally posted this in Projects instead of General. If a Mod can move it, please do.
    Last edited by MR.57; 11-14-2008 at 05:51 AM. Reason: Oops

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delhi, Ontario:
    Posts
    1,969

    Question nfinch86-Canadian Weldor :

    Quote Originally Posted by MR.57 View Post
    I have an older MillerMatic 200 and I would like a gas that I can do both short circuit and spray transfer with. My local welding supply has recommended an 85/15 Argon/CO2 mix as a starting point. He says 10% CO2 would be better for spray, but short circuit transfer performance suffers with <15% CO2 mixes.

    I'm running .035 wire, but I'm planning on trying a roll of .030" to see how that works. I've learned .035" with 75/25 will not go into spray. Is there any particular mix of gas and wire that is well suited to both transfer methods? 3/8" steel is usually the thickest I ever generally need to weld. Anything under 1/8" I usually TIG, so the application range I'm looking at is mostly for use on 1/8 to 3/8" steel.

    I need some advice from somebody who has had experience with a similar machine to narrow down the field of options. I can't afford to experiment with a dozen different combinations of gas mixes and wire right now.

    Any experiences/alternatives/suggestions are greatly appreciated

    Thanks, Matt

    Edit: I accidentally posted this in Projects instead of General. If a Mod can move it, please do.
    MR.57, HI; I've ONLY Run Lincoln Mig Welders, I DIDN'T Realize One Machine Could run Short-Circut & Spray-Transfere??? Interesting !!..... Norm :

    Sunrise Outside My Shop In Delhi, Ontario

    - Arcair- K 4000 CAC.

    - LN-25 Wire Feeder

    - Lincoln Ranger 8- Engine Drive- CC\CV:



    - Lincoln Power Mig 180C
    - Spoolgun.
    - DeWalt Chop Saw .
    - DeWalt Compressor - 13cfm, @ 100 psi.

    www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Lightbulb

    the MM210 can just get into spray transfer mode at the top end. i know i have read posts about it several times be for, have you tried a search ?? i suspect they would be similar in needs for spray and it was coverd for the MM210.
    try this
    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...fer#post155473
    Last edited by fun4now; 11-15-2008 at 07:41 PM.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Atl, Ga
    Posts
    371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nfinch86 View Post
    MR.57, HI; I've ONLY Run Lincoln Mig Welders, I DIDN'T Realize One Machine Could run Short-Circut & Spray-Transfere??? Interesting !!..... Norm :
    WTF? ................

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Deltaville, VA
    Posts
    2,239

    Default

    Mr 57,

    Obviously some of our members have difficulty with "reading comprehension". You clearly stated you had an older Millermatic 200, not an MM 210. The 200 is fully capable of short arc and spray transfer.

    Additionally, some of our members must not understand what it takes to achieve "spray transfer". (Higher amps (WFS), higher volts)

    Back to your original question. C18 (82% Argon, 18% CO2) is touted by some suppliers as an "all purpose gas". It will work with both short-arc and spray. Over 18% CO2 will make spray transfer more difficult.

    With that said, a mix of 85% Argon/15% CO2 should work on your machine with both spray and short arc.

    Personally, (and I use a Thermco mixer) I've had better results in spray with a 92%Argon/8%CO2 mix. I still like C25 for short arc.

    Another mix I've had excellent results with in spray is 98%Argon/2%O2. I think you'll find that this mix will maximize the performance of your machine. In fact, that's the mix that Miller "recommends" for spray transfer. Here, I use a Smith mixer and my argon bottle and O2 from my Ox/Ace setup. Keeps from having an extra bottle hanging around.

    Bottom line. As long as you keep the CO2 < about 18% in your mix, I think you'll find that that MM200 will do fine in short arc and spray.

    Just my .02.

    PS These observations are based on the use of a MM251, which compares to the MM200 you have.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Atl, Ga
    Posts
    371

    Default

    Sundown- Thanks for taking the time to post that and confirming the info I was going from. I realize I'm going to have to make a compromise one way or the other, because no single mix is going to be optimal for everything. For MIG gas my local gas supplier only keeps C25 on hand premixed but he's willing to custom mix at any ratio. It would be great to be able to adjust the % CO2 for each different job, but those Smith proportional mixers are out of my budget. I might have to try one fill-up with 98 Ar/2% O2 gas just to see how it works.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    i was not inferring he had a MM210, just that it has been brought up by many MM210 owners in the past and as such is a good place to look for the info he was after. he was looking for the gas, not the settings so i figured it would cover his needs even if first intended for the MM210.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Wichita Falls, Tx
    Posts
    177

    Default

    If I had one gas for short arc and spray it would be 85/15. I use to run 90/10 on my 350P and it sucked for short arc. Ill put it this away, I would rathr use 100% co2 than 90/10 for short arc. The 90/10 for spray work wonders. But for short arc I prefer 75/25. So 85/15 is a comprimise between the two.

    IMO, you should get a smith mixer if you can afford it. I did and have never regreted it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delhi, Ontario:
    Posts
    1,969

    Default nfinch86- Canadian Weldor:

    Quote Originally Posted by MR.57 View Post
    WTF? ................
    mrs.57........... WTF...........

    Sunrise Outside My Shop In Delhi, Ontario

    - Arcair- K 4000 CAC.

    - LN-25 Wire Feeder

    - Lincoln Ranger 8- Engine Drive- CC\CV:



    - Lincoln Power Mig 180C
    - Spoolgun.
    - DeWalt Chop Saw .
    - DeWalt Compressor - 13cfm, @ 100 psi.

    www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Deltaville, VA
    Posts
    2,239

    Default

    nfinch86,

    I think Mr.57 (as I was also) was just surprised by your comment about one machine being capable of doing both short arc and spray. Especially coming from someone who professes to be a "professional welder" with 30+ years of experience.

    Virtually all mig welders, to include the Lincoln 255c, in the 250A range and higher are capable of doing both spray and short arc. Just need the higher voltage and amps (and correct gas) the larger machines offer. Machines generally in the 200A or so range (depending on wire size) are capable of spray, but their duty cycle at that output is somewhat limited.

    I made a comment about another poster (very high post count) making a comment about an MM210 when the OP clearly stated he had an older MM200. For those who've been around awhile, the MM200 the OP refered to was a very powerful machine for it's rating. Much stronger than Miller's later offering of the MM210/212. In fact, output wise, it compares more to the MM251/MM252, than it does to the 210/212.

    Internet forums can be a tremendous source of information but they can also expose a lack of knowledge. Most old timers have learned to take internet "guidance" with a grain of salt. There's probably as much "bad" info put out as there is "good" info. Know the source before taking guidance too literally.

    PS Miller offers an excellent reference manual on Gas Metal Arc Welding which is available for downloading or can be ordered in hard copy format. In it, there is an excellent discussion of spray transfer as well as multiple tables for material, wire size, volts, amps (WFS) etc. Well worth the download.

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