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  1. #11
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    Fusion King,
    Well since nobody else has helped, I will try. I checked the drawing for the block in question, and its cast from plain old 356, heat treated to the T-6 condition. So that means:
    1-Preheat to 275 F for about an hour
    2-Weld using 4043 filler and limit the amperage to about 200
    3-Return to the oven for an additional hour after welding, then let it cool in the oven after turning it off.
    This is a common practice to weld on 356 engine castings, done all the time on aircraft engines, and automotive. Good Luck!
    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerometalworker View Post
    Fusion King,
    Well since nobody else has helped, I will try. I checked the drawing for the block in question, and its cast from plain old 356, heat treated to the T-6 condition. So that means:
    1-Preheat to 275 F for about an hour
    2-Weld using 4043 filler and limit the amperage to about 200
    3-Return to the oven for an additional hour after welding, then let it cool in the oven after turning it off.
    This is a common practice to weld on 356 engine castings, done all the time on aircraft engines, and automotive. Good Luck!
    -Aaron

    Thanks Aero

    strange tho...just got off the phone with chevy parts guy and they said it was 319-T5. (before I came home and read your post BTW)
    If so, that sorta changes everything. 4043 would work still tho.
    Waiting for the Alco-tec tech boys to call back on their filler recommendations at the time.
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  3. #13
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    Well I know the latest LS series is sold as being 319, yet every time I scan a part here at work its 356 or something else. In any event the same filler is normally used with all of those alloys in that family.
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

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  4. #14
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    Alco-tech engineer called back and said 4145 filler with NO pre-heat and at room temp. Only do small amounts and don't let heat build.
    Possibly even PEEN bead only.
    Wildest out of the box thinking that I've heard in a long time.
    I called them because I met the regional manager and I knew he went to Bonnevile speed weeks every year and done a bunch of high tech repairs for that crowd. He happened to be on the phone with whom he considered the best authority he knew on this and tranferred all my info to him. He is the tech guy for Alcotec on fillers/wires etc and has his own biz doing this very thing and was familiar with this block already.

    Before you get all worked up my brother was going on about some company doing top-Fuel block repairs etc and they are submerging blocks except for the weld area and welding them.
    I guess it's all about controlling HAZ.
    Anyhow brother may go ahead and do this himself and upgrade his stuff as needed anyway. He lives about a 100 or so miles from me. So it would be a hassle for me to do it anyways.
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  5. #15
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    Well as I recall 319 does have about 4% copper and about 6% silicon, so 4145 would be more appropriate. However the question still exists of the actual block alloy. I do have some 4145 if you ever need any, last time I bought it it was $26 a pound. The process of welding cold is interesting, and not something I would normally even consider. I wonder if he is suggesting that to preserve the heat-treat in the surrounding material as much as possible? One would think the best bet would be to have the part re-heat treated after welding. Im still questioning the stain gradients with welding a high silicon/copper casting cold, since the entire part is going to "freeze" at about the same moment unlike using a high silicon filler on a low silicon base metal (i.e. 4043 on 6061 ). In the aircraft world we weld cases, and cylinder heads all the time, normally the cases are 356 and the heads are commonly a242, and eveything is pre-heated to various temperatures depending on heat treatment to avoid stress fractures. Its been done that way for many years. I would be very interested to see case studies of the "cold welding" method on cast material, if there are none....it would make me wonder.
    -Aaron
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerometalworker View Post
    Well as I recall 319 does have about 4% copper and about 6% silicon, so 4145 would be more appropriate. However the question still exists of the actual block alloy. I do have some 4145 if you ever need any, last time I bought it it was $26 a pound. The process of welding cold is interesting, and not something I would normally even consider. I wonder if he is suggesting that to preserve the heat-treat in the surrounding material as much as possible? One would think the best bet would be to have the part re-heat treated after welding. Im still questioning the stain gradients with welding a high silicon/copper casting cold, since the entire part is going to "freeze" at about the same moment unlike using a high silicon filler on a low silicon base metal (i.e. 4043 on 6061 ). In the aircraft world we weld cases, and cylinder heads all the time, normally the cases are 356 and the heads are commonly a242, and eveything is pre-heated to various temperatures depending on heat treatment to avoid stress fractures. Its been done that way for many years. I would be very interested to see case studies of the "cold welding" method on cast material, if there are none....it would make me wonder.
    -Aaron
    Myself I highly question it. I find people doing wild things and getting away with it all the time. Simply a way to get out of heat treat and whatever else that brings?? It was given to me to do as gospel tho. I guess a search on welding 319 will be needed. I have mixed feelings on this one. Thanks again for the info.
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  7. #17
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    No problem,
    Let me know if you find out any further information. None of my alcoa books even suggests anything like that method, but the newest one is about 8 years old. Im going to pose the question to a co-worker tomorrow, he sits on the aluminum resource board as one of the "fellows".
    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerometalworker View Post
    No problem,
    Let me know if you find out any further information. None of my alcoa books even suggests anything like that method, but the newest one is about 8 years old. Im going to pose the question to a co-worker tomorrow, he sits on the aluminum resource board as one of the "fellows".
    -Aaron
    Thanks and cool
    I'm gonna call 'em back and dig a little more myself.
    I guess one way to look at it is if it can't grow it can't shrink.
    Sounds more like some of that rollcage junk we were disscussing a few months back but I could be quick to judge.
    Heck and I was thinking the internet was keeping us on the "cutting edge"
    Last edited by FusionKing; 11-06-2008 at 06:04 AM.
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  9. #19
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    Very interesting topic, I look forward to see what else you guys can dig up.
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  10. #20
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    It should be 356, thats what My LS1 is, I am pretty sure the LS7 is the same alloy...
    Voigt Precision Welding, Inc.

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