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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Browns Valley, California
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    1,713

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruizer View Post
    I have encountered problems using receptacles with the neutrals attached to the welding tables..............
    That's a no-no in any case. The neutral is a conductor. You would not want a conductor from the AC service to be electrically connected to a steel welding table.

    Bonding a welding table to the building ground system is OK to do. If your table is bonded, then you should leave the ground from your 120V receptacles isolated. This prevents any possibility of a "dual" ground path.

    Hank
    ...from the Gadget Garage
    Millermatic 210 w/3035, BWE
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  2. #12

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    Great comments - let me be more precise in what I want to do and the potential problem.

    I have a stand alone MM 251, with plastic casters, on concrete floor, supplied with 230v grounded service.

    I have a stand alone welding table mounted on rubber roller casters. When welding I clamp the negative lead from the MM 251 to my welding table. There would not be a case where the welding table would normally touch the 251, unless inadvertently - that could happen but not likely.

    I want to mount two duplex receptacles on my welding table to serve light loads from my 4 1/2" and 7" hand grinders, and perhaps a light. These receptacles would be connected to a wall outlet with a 20 ft. extension cord.

    If I connect the Green Ground wire from the 110v supply to the welding table (and I assume that I should in order to have a grounding connection to the hand grinders), am I going to have a problem also connecting the neutral welding lead to the table? The concern I have is that, in some way, by having a ground connection on the welding table, it will adversely effect the welder's circuitry.
    MTBob
    ____________________________
    MM 251 w/Spool gun
    MM 135
    Evolution Cut Off saw
    Logan Lathe
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    Walker Turner Drill Press

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by hankj View Post
    That's a no-no in any case. The neutral is a conductor. You would not want a conductor from the AC service to be electrically connected to a steel welding table.

    Bonding a welding table to the building ground system is OK to do. If your table is bonded, then you should leave the ground from your 120V receptacles isolated. This prevents any possibility of a "dual" ground path.

    Hank
    Hank: re: "If your table is bonded..." - by "bonded", do you mean "connected electrically"?
    MTBob
    ____________________________
    MM 251 w/Spool gun
    MM 135
    Evolution Cut Off saw
    Logan Lathe
    Clausing Mill
    Walker Turner Drill Press

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,376

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    Bob, you describe your situation, just run the cord like you are planning.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,662

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hankj View Post
    That's a no-no in any case. The neutral is a conductor. You would not want a conductor from the AC service to be electrically connected to a steel welding table.

    Bonding a welding table to the building ground system is OK to do. If your table is bonded, then you should leave the ground from your 120V receptacles isolated. This prevents any possibility of a "dual" ground path.

    Hank
    WHOOPS,I'm tired , too many 12 hr days, I ment the actual ground lug off the duplexes, that why we use the Hubbel isolated ground duplexes

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,376

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    If you use them feed from gfci circuit though as there is possibility of plugging a 3 wire tool in this kind of outlet.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Clark County, NV
    Posts
    2,696

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBob View Post
    ...am I going to have a problem also connecting the neutral welding lead to the table? The concern I have is that, in some way, by having a ground connection on the welding table, it will adversely effect the welder's circuitry.
    I was with you right up to there. The welder has no neutral, and in any case, like Hank said, the neutral (like on the 120V receptacles you are adding) is a conductor, not tied to ground except in the main panel.

    I recommend a good heavy duty cord since I am assuming it will be on the floor in a semi-permanent basis.

    There are no direct issues with having the ground from the 120V receptacles tied to the table (and they should be.)

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,662

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    Haven't had too many problems when migging, or using stick with a auxillary ground hooked up to the tables, its with the Tig process then there will be some interferance.

    We have had problems with a poor work clamp ground and thus literally smoking the auxillary ground back to the machine

    So for the $6 bucks cost on a isolated ground duplex, why all the fuss.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    701

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruizer View Post
    Haven't had too many problems when migging, or using stick with a auxillary ground hooked up to the tables, its with the Tig process then there will be some interferance.

    We have had problems with a poor work clamp ground and thus literally smoking the auxillary ground back to the machine

    So for the $6 bucks cost on a isolated ground duplex, why all the fuss.
    The high-frequency can indeed do strange things!!!!

    Griff

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,376

    Default

    So for the $6 bucks cost on a isolated ground duplex, why all the fuss
    This is a strict code violation, this recept needs a ground wire hooked to it or it needs gfci, you cannot have an outlet where a grounded tool could be plugged in without a ground. Where those are used, such as hospitals and the pipe is metal, they are mounted in metal boxes they run an insulated wire for grounding.

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