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  1. #1
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    Question brigs and straten engine case, magnesium ?? aluminum??

    i have a 17HP B&S mower engine casing i needed to weld up a few cracks on.
    i was told its cast aluminum, but seriously doubt it. i went to TIG it up like i have on many bike case's and got very different results. it kept popping out lil yellow specks or pebbles like salt sized, and popping. no way to get it to flow. just as it would get ready to go liquid it swell and would pop out junk. the only conclusion i could come to was its not aluminum but magnesium. any ideas on how to weld some thing like this or do you just get an aluminum brazing rod and go that way??? this thing just refused to accept heat without exploding?? i ended up using a brazing rod on it and got it to seal up. is there a better way?? i was thinking if i had to put a piece back in and seal it up i don't know that this would be an option ?? any of you guys deal with this stuff, if so whats the trick ??

    the pic's are befor i cleaned it up to weld. it was spotless when i started adding heat, thats just the way i got it.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    wisconsin
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fun4now View Post
    i have a 17HP B&S mower engine casing i needed to weld up a few cracks on.
    i was told its cast aluminum, but seriously doubt it. i went to TIG it up like i have on many bike case's and got very different results. it kept popping out lil yellow specks or pebbles like salt sized, and popping. no way to get it to flow. just as it would get ready to go liquid it swell and would pop out junk. the only conclusion i could come to was its not aluminum but magnesium. any ideas on how to weld some thing like this or do you just get an aluminum brazing rod and go that way??? this thing just refused to accept heat without exploding?? i ended up using a brazing rod on it and got it to seal up. is there a better way?? i was thinking if i had to put a piece back in and seal it up i don't know that this would be an option ?? any of you guys deal with this stuff, if so whats the trick ??

    the pic's are befor i cleaned it up to weld. it was spotless when i started adding heat, thats just the way i got it.
    James,
    Ive welded quite a few briggs blocks, and have the material specs on the casting material. No its not magnesium. What I can tell from the picture is that it wasnt clean enough. This is a porous die casting, and the only reliable way I have found to weld them is to get them squeaky clean in the ultrasonic cleaner, vee out the base metal to 75% depth, preheat to 350-400 F, and weld using either 4043 or 4047 filler. Tig works OK, torch works a bit better due to the flux, but I usually use the Tig technology.
    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

    Miller Dynasty 300DX
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  3. #3
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    near rochester NY
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    Red face

    yea i cleaned it a bunch more than in the pic. even took a torch to it lightly to bring out any oil that would seep out when i start to weld. acitoned it after a serious decreasing. i have just never had little specks come out wile welding that burned off with yellow smoke trail on the work ?? it was definitely not responding to any of the tricks i use on motorcycle covers. it was really frustrating.
    the guy has another one thats too far gone to try to fix. so i asked if i could have it to work out a way that works. i was thinking i would do a little more playing around with the O/A torch on it as well as TIG and see if i can come up with a better solution. it was the first time i did one of these. i was expecting the same from it as a bike cover and was sadly mistaken. i don't like to be beaten so i'm going to keep at it till i can produce great a looking solid repair on the spare one. so if it comes up again i will be ready, and if it never comes up again i will still have learned some thing new. and experience is always worth the $$ of consumables.

    i don't have an ultrasonic cleaner, any other helpful hints would be greatly appreciated.
    i used engine de-greaser, acetone and stainless steel wire wheel. i used the wire wheel by hand not in the grinder so as not to melt anything in or tear out too much. it was clean and shiny and nothing seeped out with heat added. used a heat gun to pre-heat it be for welding.

    any idea's??? i need to get this right , even if its just for me.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    wisconsin
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    James,
    In lieu of having an ultrasonic, try an old Nesco roaster filled with a mixture of water and Simple Green Aircraft and Precision parts cleaner. Dont use the regular simple green. Original Tide works as well. Heat the mixture up to steaming, and give the block a bath for an hour or so. You would be amazed at the gunk that continues to ooze out after you think you had it clean. One word of caution, dont try to weld "Hot and Fast", there are low melting point materials in the casting that will boil out easily under the Tig arc. Pre-Heat and take your time.
    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

    Miller Dynasty 300DX
    Miller Dynasty 200DX
    Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
    Miller Millermatic Passport

    Miller Spot Welder
    Motor-Guard stud welder

    Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Lake of the Ozarks MO
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    Use the wire wheel in the grinder NOT by hand!! There is no way in **** you will EVER get it good enuff by hand. Get it in the groove and DIG hard so you can actually see the pores smear over.Then heat the bevels untill crud rises and wire wheel again. Use a hand brush for touch up during the process maybe, but that old nasty casting needs you to get very aggressive or it WILL whip you.
    If you are going to use a brush by hand use a hand brush with a handle so you can get very vigorous.
    The aircraft cleaner by simple green works pretty good but I like superclean as well or better.
    Funny thing to me is I get all kinds of super nasty castings brought to me and don't seem to have near that much trouble. I wonder where you had your hz and balance set? I stay more on 50% balance for more cleaning and really don't use much hz either. Old school works much better on castings because you do not want to pound all the junk out out it when you weld. Sometimes I drop WAY down on hz like 40hz or less...the way I see it is there is a reason why they made that much adjustment...try it
    It may be a little different than Aero would do it but I ain't getting any comebacks and if he was here with me when I was doing it he would be saying OH YEAH good enuff
    And if needed don't forget to add the beef in and grind it where it's undetectable
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Salem ,Ohio
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    Cool

    I do about a dozen Briggs a year and just use my mig and 4043...Bob
    Bob Wright, Grandson of Tee Nee Boat Trailer Founder
    Metal Master Fab Salem, Oh 44460
    Birthplace of the Silver & Deming Drill
    1999 MM185 w/185 Spoolgun,1986 Thunderbolt AC/DC
    Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    835

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    I use a 1/4" carbide burr in a pneumatic die grinder with rear exhaust (front exhaust will contaminate the weld area with air tool oil). I hold it at a 45 angle with the surface to be welded, so it cuts a 90 groove into the aluminum. I precisely cut to a depth that leaves about 40 thousandths gap, which removes all traces of old material and contamination. The carbide burr leaves a cut that is incredibly smooth and clean.

    I use 4043 filler and traditional sine-wave AC (50/50). On applications like this, zirconiated tungsten really shines. It doesn't encourage the sputtering that other tungstens do.

    Motor oil is designed to resist extremely high temperatures before cooking off. It is darn had to get out and I swear traces linger even after heating to the melting point! Brushing smears it in... grind it out with a clean cutting carbide bit. That's probably the best you can do without an ultrasonic cleaner.
    Equipped with red and blue... and red and green!
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  8. #8
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    Yea I do that (spoolgun) on some castings from time to time esp. ones that have a bunch of grass imbeded in them like aluminum mower decks etc.
    Spoolguns overcome nasty junk like none other IMO.
    I've welded junk with a spoolgun that was so nasty you would not have believed you could'a welded it. Just scratch what you can and bevel if possible and fire away
    Only problem is spoolguns happen so fast you need to bid those jobs
    I used to have to fire up the Bobcat and run the spoolgun thru the WC-115a and it done a fine job. But then I bought my 350-P and hooked my 30-A to that and OMG!!! I brought in that "needle like" precision like you have on a normal steel mig only on thinner aluminum but yet still kept all the good spoolgun qualities. Not to mention it transformed it into a fire breathing dragon on the other end of the spectrum. My only problem is I am so set in my ways that I still go to the tig first.
    AAMetalmaster I see your point too as well as Aero's..use what you know best and use it to the best of your ability...you bet'cha!!
    Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
    MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
    Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

    Miller Bobcat 225 NT
    Miller 30-A Spoolgun
    Miller WC-115-A
    Miller Spectrum 300
    Miller Spoolmate 200
    Miller 225 Thunderbolt
    SPEEDGLAS 9100XX

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
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    Default

    i was at 80 h and 45% bal. 4043 filler .
    i cant wait to get the other one to play with. should be fun.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Thumbs up

    no spool gun option.
    just TIG and O/A.
    i'll try softening up the arc and see where that gets me.
    thanks for all the advice guys. i'll let ya know how the next one comes out.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

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