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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    11

    Default Tig welding 4130 tubes, neeb question

    I am a college student at Polytechnic University of Brooklyn.

    I am doing a project called Formula SAE. Its a basically a formula 1 car but smaller and slower.

    Anyways, I am doing a 4130 steel frame from 1", 0.75", 0.625", 0.5" tubes thickness from 0.035" to 0.095" (mostly 0.035"). I have a Tig welder, it goes up to 325Amps on the dial.

    I need to purchase gas, filler rods, and tungsten/cup.

    I was wondering if anyone know which one should I get. Which filler rods, tungsten and cup size and type, what gas I need. Any help and tips would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    welcome to the site.
    you will need strait argon for gas. the tungsten, cup and torch will all be dependant in part to the welder you are using, be it transformer or inverter. so what is the welder you will be useing ??
    and you just have to show us some pic's of this project as it progresses.
    Miller has an excelent TIG book free to download in its literiture section, i would atleast download and read it but i recomend the student package for $25 you cant go wrong, i got it a wile ago and its a great packet.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    11

    Default

    I have a Heliarc 252, Solid State AC/DC TIG Welder Transformer/ SCR, that what it says.

    Ye, I will post pics as soon as I start welding the thing.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Olive Branch Ms
    Posts
    129

    Default

    I am also fairly new to welding. I am finishing up a roll cage made of 4130 and used 1/16 ER70 rod. One thing I learned that may help is to clean the inside of the tubing just as good as the outside surfaces. I bought some different diameter wire brush wheels and would sort of hone the inside up about 3/4 inch. There is a site called JD2.com that sells a great little tube notcher for $200. Good luck
    Webb's Welding and Repair LLC
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    11

    Default

    So, looks like argon gas.
    and Use ER70S2 or S6 filler rods.

    What tungsten should I use? type, size? and cup for it?
    How many amps should I squeeze, and what flow should I am at?
    I am in low air travel area, Indoors.

    I got a present, temporary, the tube notcher

    I will need to get wire brush things

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    i would use 2% lanthanated or 2% cerated tungsten ( i prefer lanthanated). its becomming more commen for transformer welders to start useing the new better tungsten mixes as aposed to pure tungsten however you could use pure if you wanted.
    size would be 3/32" or 1/16" tungsten cup could be from a #4 to #8 depending on the tungsten and the personal preferance. i would highly recomend you read the above mentioned TIG book first and get a lot of practise befor atempting this especily if some one will be driveing this thing when done. TIG is not simple and you dont want to trust your life in a race car to bad tig welds. its easy to get a good looking weld that is not going to hold anything, you need expereance to do some thing like this. looks can be decieving and you dont want it falling apart on you.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  7. #7

    Default welding 4130 tubing

    hello all,
    preheating or annealing as some call it,it not required on 4130 tubing
    you would have to get the tubing a 1550 degrees,and hold it a that temp
    from anywhere to 30min to 24hrs ,depending on the thickness,and as far
    as what cup to use i use a no.8 for all my tubing,and if you want it to look
    really slick,,,use a gas lense cup

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gary gonzales View Post
    hello all,
    preheating or annealing as some call it,it not required on 4130 tubing
    you would have to get the tubing a 1550 degrees,and hold it a that temp
    from anywhere to 30min to 24hrs ,depending on the thickness,and as far
    as what cup to use i use a no.8 for all my tubing,and if you want it to look
    really slick,,,use a gas lense cup

    Gary,
    Preheating is different then a post weld anneal. And yes you need the post weld anneal to do a proper job. Im not going to go into the details of it here but the short version is the untempered Martensite due to the rapid gas quench when tig or mig welding the thin material. Simply warming the joint up to a dull red, and slowly letting it cool takes the Martensite through its critical temperature range without it becoming un-tempered. You wont find this on think sections but its very common on tubing. There have been many reported failures of Tig and Mig welds on 4130 due to this exact cause. What you described is commonly called normalizing, and is different then a full anneal. We in the aircraft industry have had to learn the hard way about this material, its easy to work with, welds beautifully, but must be treated right.
    Have fun!

    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

    Miller Dynasty 300DX
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    Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    11

    Default

    been welding the thing up, me and my friends tacked it all together, and now we are welding it all up. we used 1/2 a tank on tacking and practicing welding. I am a master hole wizard. I think I made most holes, and I have filler most holes. Using er70S2 is pretty easy, I tried a bit stronger material and it became harder to weld because it did not flow as easily.

    Anyways, basically non of us know how to weld right, so we are trying our best. Its very easy to make a hole in 4130 1x0.035 tubing even with 1/16 tungsten and welder set to 75amps top.

    After we finish the welding, I take some good pics. For now just some spoilers:

    Me welding:



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    836

    Default

    Yep Practice Practice Practice. And while your at it invest in a long sleeve welding jacket. Skin cancer and/or burns isnt fun. Also post weld anneal if its critical.

    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

    Miller Dynasty 300DX
    Miller Dynasty 200DX
    Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
    Miller Millermatic Passport

    Miller Spot Welder
    Motor-Guard stud welder

    Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

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