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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Crediton Ontario Canada
    Posts
    93

    Default Proper sub panel size for Syncrowave 200

    I have a 100 amp service in my house.
    I want to install a sub panel in my 2 car garage.
    All single phase.
    I figured a single phase 60 amp sub panel would be lots,but I read in the Syncrowave 200 manual that a 208-230 volt wants 54 amps at peak power draw.
    They claim you need a 60 amp slow trip breaker or a 80 amp.


    SOOO does this mean I need to make my sub panel 100 amps instaed of 60?
    I would also do the regular wiring in the shop eg.lights,Split recepticals(for the beer fridge)
    any help or good advice is welcome
    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    142

    Default

    60a breaker for the machine....do you have power in the garage yet?
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Crediton Ontario Canada
    Posts
    93

    Default

    So I need to buy a 100 amp breaker, 90 feet of 4 gauge wire, a panel,a slow trip 60 amp breaker ,some 8 gauge wire,a 50 amp female welding plug then it is legal?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Clark County, NV
    Posts
    2,696

    Default

    "Legal" is going to depend on where you live. If you put your location in your profile, we'll always know what area you are in.

    Is this a detached or attached garage? If detached, is there already a circuit of any kind going there?

    Will you be using it at full peak? What else will need to come from the subpanel? Lighting or other receptacles? What other tools might be used at the same time?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Crediton Ontario Canada
    Posts
    93

    Default

    I live in Ontario Canada.
    yes the garage is attached.yes there is one string of 2 lights and a switch that I would likely get rid of and run lights and recepticals from the sub panel if that makes sense to do.
    It would be all the normal shop stuff beer fridge,5 horse air compresser,1 horse bench grinder,4.5 inch grinder,extra lights,Syncrowave 200 welder,mabey more as I could afford it (plasma torch).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lake of the Ozarks MO
    Posts
    3,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SGS Welding View Post
    I live in Ontario Canada.
    yes the garage is attached.yes there is one string of 2 lights and a switch that I would likely get rid of and run lights and recepticals from the sub panel if that makes sense to do.
    It would be all the normal shop stuff beer fridge,5 horse air compresser,1 horse bench grinder,4.5 inch grinder,extra lights,Syncrowave 200 welder,mabey more as I could afford it (plasma torch).
    I guess the walls are not finished out??
    I would do a sub box of at least 100 amps or more if possible, and the rest of the electric system makes this feasible...you got a bunch of stuff and yanking plugs all the time can get old.

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Clark County, NV
    Posts
    2,696

    Default

    What're the electrical loads in the rest of the house? Is an upgrade to a 200A service feasible?

    Sounds like a one man shop though, no heavy tools operating at the same time as others. You can probably survive with the current plan.

    I wouldn't bother relocating the existing circuits to the subpanel unless you need to. If it ain't broke, why fix it? Just use the sub for the new ones.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    893

    Default Beware!

    The common mistake people make when they install subpanels themselves is this:

    they feed them with 3 wire cable and use the neutral as the ground in the subpanel. Don't do this!

    You'll need to run 4 wire cable (Line1,Line2,Neutral,Ground) and isolate the ground from the neutral in your subpanel. You'll be tying all your white wires to the neutral bus bar and all your grounds to the isolated ground bus bar.

    Also, there's no need to get carried away on the branch circuit feeding this welder. It has a 40% duty cycle at its rated input of 54A. Refer to this post

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodybagger View Post
    That sounds like the way to do it.

    As far as the smaller wire than expected, refer to the following:

    2005 National Electric Code

    Article 630.11, 630.11(A), 630.11(B)

    Basically says that even though the welder is rated at 54A input, you don't need 54A capacity wire (ie 6 or 4), because the duty cycle of the welder is less than 100%

    At full capacity 54A input, the rated duty cycle is 40%. Using the table in NEC, the minimum current carying capacity of the wires feeding this welder are 63% of the rated current, or .63*54A=34A. The smallest usable wire would be 8 gauge with a capacity of 40A (which is exactly what it has on the cord). So, you could run #8 copper to a 50A welder receptacle for this welder with no worries because NEC specifically allows it. Also, you could even feed this from an 80A breaker to eliminate nuissance trips, since NEC allows the use of a breaker up to 200% of the conductor capacity PROVIDED it's used on a welder.

    But if money is no object, it never hurts to go bigger. But stick with a 3 prong NEMA type 6-50 Receptacle.
    6g copper would work running to your subpanel, and 8-2/wg would be OK to run your Syncrowave 200, but here is the catch...

    You can use an 80 amp breaker on the branch circuit for the welder, but you're stuck with a 60A main breaker feeding the box unless you step up to a 100A box. So if you're welding full bore on thick aluminum, even a couple halogen lights going might result in nuisance trips of the subpanel's main breaker.

    Do yourself a favor and put in a 100A subpanel fed from 4g copper so you ugrade once. Then feed your welder with 8-2/wg through a 60A breaker. Keep in mind, it's not unheard of to get a separate metered service to the garage!

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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodybagger View Post
    it's not unheard of to get a separate metered service to the garage!
    There ya go, 200 Amps in the Garage.

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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,412

    Default

    I have done that, put the new service in the garage where the motor loads are and feed the old house panel.

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