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Thread: Tubing Roller

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyoRoy View Post
    Forget the ring roller...you're gonna be too broke from buying lathe tooling.
    Thats what I hear. But if thats not gonna cost me enough, I am getting a mill next year.
    Grumple
    Oxy/Ac Large Tanks
    Miller Swinger AC 180 (SOLD)
    Miller Syncrowave 250DX Runner with Pulser

  2. #42
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jallcorn View Post
    Look at Hossfeld's web site,
    http://www.hossfeldbender.com/advantages/index.php
    this page says what they can do. How well do they do it? Don't know yet but I just bought a #2 Hossfeld with 3 - 5 gallon buckets of dies. Haven't had time to look at it yet. My application will be bending scrolls, etc. for ornamental ironwork.

    3 weeks ago had to make 8 sets of rings to exact dimension, 1 set to fit exactly inside the other. Used an old trailer brake housing that just happened to be the exact diameter, and hot bent 1/2" square bar, then hot bent 1"x1/4" flat around the 1/2" bar still on the jig. Slow but worked. If I had had the Hossfeld then, would have tried to figure it out for that project.

    Hossfeld has a good reputation among blacksmiths that have them.
    I looked at most of the benders and chose the Shop Outfiitters Compact bender. I bought it just before they re-designed it and added a degree wheel. In fact, I questioned them some time ago about the fact it didn't have a degree wheel like the others and asked if they were going to make one in the future and the guy said "No". I should have asked again when I placed my order. Anyway, unless I stumble across a super deal on a Hossfeld I am really all set in the bending department for now.
    Thanks,
    Grumple
    Oxy/Ac Large Tanks
    Miller Swinger AC 180 (SOLD)
    Miller Syncrowave 250DX Runner with Pulser

  3. #43
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    Sep 2005
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    WY...armpit of U.S.A.
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    659

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    Grumple & jallcorn,
    The Hossfeld bender by design is just not set up to bend rings. A 180 bend can be done, but there will be the problem of needing a different die set for each radius AND each dimensional size of square or round tubing. What it will give you on those half rings is a near perfect sidewall without deformation on any but the inside face.

    Grumple,
    The 59' dimension on the shop was due to the 10 ft. set-backs on a 79' 4" lot. City wouldn't let me go to 60'.

    I'm not familiar enough with the Shop Outfitter bender to know if a degree wheel would be that advantageous. On my Hossfeld I just measure when I get close and disregard the degree wheel entirely.

    jallcorn,
    The scroll bending operation is done outside the usual area between the arms on the Hossfeld. Scroll die(s) are set up on top of the bending frame instead, much like what you would find on most every other scroll bender.

    If you purchased the Hossfled used, and it sounds as if you did, make sure you get the manual for it. Damage can be done to the bender frame if the pin placement is not observed correctly. Used to be $10 for the manual from Hossfled. BTW, the link you posted showing bending operation is taken directly from the manual...though the manual goes into a bit more depth for each bending operation.
    Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
    Miller DialArc 250
    Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
    Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
    Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
    Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
    South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
    Logan 7" shaper
    Ellis 3000 band saw
    Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
    Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
    3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
    Lots of dust bunnies
    Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Florida
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WyoRoy View Post
    Grumple & jallcorn,
    The Hossfeld bender by design is just not set up to bend rings. A 180 bend can be done, but there will be the problem of needing a different die set for each radius AND each dimensional size of square or round tubing. What it will give you on those half rings is a near perfect sidewall without deformation on any but the inside face.

    Grumple,
    The 59' dimension on the shop was due to the 10 ft. set-backs on a 79' 4" lot. City wouldn't let me go to 60'.

    I'm not familiar enough with the Shop Outfitter bender to know if a degree wheel would be that advantageous. On my Hossfeld I just measure when I get close and disregard the degree wheel entirely.
    If I would have known about the new model with the degree wheel I would have waited for it and bought it but its not really necessary as I can bend without it. That said, I think I can spend a few days getting my new lathe set up and decide whether to build or buy a ring roller. Thanks for the feedback.
    Grumple
    Oxy/Ac Large Tanks
    Miller Swinger AC 180 (SOLD)
    Miller Syncrowave 250DX Runner with Pulser

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    375

    Default Operator and the dies

    OK, I'll chime in.

    I have the Hossfeld #2, the Harbor Freight compact bender, a Di-acro #2, the cheapo ebay ring roller, a 52" sheet metal slip roller, and a 13" home-made "band-roller" (for lack of a better term). I've owned several other benders and I've made other benders as well.

    In my experience, bending bar and tubing is all about three things: leverage, the correct die(s), and operator trial and error (emphasis on the latter). Over the years, I've done more stuff on that $79 HF bender or around a sacrificial plywood form than I've done with my more expensive benders. Why? ...Because it's what I had at the time. If it was too hard to pull on the little bender, I just added heat as required. Don't have the right die for a couple of bends?... carved it out with a band saw (jig saw, whatever saw) and pulled around it. Making a throw away die also lets me keep tailoring it to account for springback... something a "degree indicator" isn't going to help you with. When I need to repeat bends, I just scribe a line and/or clamp a stop, then zing-bang it's go time.

    As I got into bending heavier metal and some tube shapes, I picked up a the Hossfeld. Yeah, I had plans to make a sweet bender, but when the time arose, I had a job to do and time is money, so I ordered a Hossfeld. IMHO, it is a relatively crude tool, but that's OK because it's all operator control anyhoo. As anyone familiar with a Hossfeld style machine knows, you don't rely on the machine for accuracy... it's all in operator patience and diligence. I prefer CNC dies to the Hossfeld factory dies, as they are more accurate. Conversely, Hossfeld has it all figured out and has TONS of dies available... although they will cost you. You have to pay to play.

    Yes, you can roll rings on the Hossfeld... but why bother when you can buy a ring roller on ebay for under $100? Got a lathe? Make some dies. Want to bend stock other than flat bar on your ring roller?... it's all about the dies Don't care about distortion?... Then just bend/roll it on the flat dies and get 'er done.

    I made my own "band roller" because I could. I made it to roll 1/8" -1/4" thick material x 13" wide. It works like a champ... effortlessly. Can I roll tubing on it? Sure, if I made a set of dies for it.... which is a PITA. So I won't. I'll use my cheapo ring roller and make dies for it as necessary. How thick of tubing can I roll on it? Don't know yet... my guess is 2 x 2 x .120 wall will be some workout. But hey, if I got a couple of arches to do, it aint no big deal. If I gots 40 arches to do... time to fork over some coin and get another macheen. Will that macheen be more accurate? No, it will be just as accurate... as I am. It will, however, most likely be motor driven so I won't be sweatin' my *%$&^ off turning that d@mn wheel.

    The Di-acro #2 is very nice and I have a large assortment of dies to go with it. I use it for smaller stuff, especially when I need repeatability and accuracy... which this little machine can offer... accompanied with operator diligence. There are larger versions of this machine, but now that I own a Hossfeld, I'm no longer interested.

    In summary, I am into prototyping and general custom fabrication, so I need a variety of benders and the "universal" Hossfeld comes in handy. If I were making roll cages or doing something else that required a good amount of tube bending, I would not hesitate for a moment to purchase a hydraulic tube bender for good, consistent, accurate mandrel tube bending.

    It all depends on what you're doing and what kind of results you're looking for and what is acceptable for the job at hand.

    As my father always says, "Hit it with a hammer." ...which is what I do a lot of the time. By the time I fumble with all the pins and dies to make a hard 90 degree bend in some bar stock, I could have just hit it a couple of times with a hammer.

    Start bending something, people. Let's see some pics.

    Grumple, my advice is to buy the cheapo ring roller and the HF compact bender. You'll be out $200 and you'll be able to bend so much metal it's sick.

    Good night, everybody!
    Maxstar 200DX
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  6. #46
    Join Date
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    Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
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    Default

    The dies for the roller I mentioned earlier in this post were all home built, crude but they got the job done. In fact he had 4 different sets of dies, one for bending flat bar, another for angle and two sets for two sizes of square tube.

    I look forward to seeing you machine some nice dies for your "new project"!!!!
    at home:
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  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    San Diego
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    Default

    Grumple, I re-read and realized your already purchased the SO bender.
    Sounds like fun; I'll (read: we'll) be looking forward to some pictures.
    Maxstar 200DX
    Maxstar 300DX
    Dynasty 200DX
    Passport
    Spectrum 701
    LMSW-52 spot welder

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WY...armpit of U.S.A.
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    659

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chris***@sbcglo View Post
    OK, I'll chime in.

    I have the Hossfeld #2, the Harbor Freight compact bender, a Di-acro #2, the cheapo ebay ring roller, a 52" sheet metal slip roller, and a 13" home-made "band-roller" (for lack of a better term). I've owned several other benders and I've made other benders as well.

    In my experience, bending bar and tubing is all about three things: leverage, the correct die(s), and operator trial and error (emphasis on the latter). Over the years, I've done more stuff on that $79 HF bender or around a sacrificial plywood form than I've done with my more expensive benders. Why? ...Because it's what I had at the time. If it was too hard to pull on the little bender, I just added heat as required. Don't have the right die for a couple of bends?... carved it out with a band saw (jig saw, whatever saw) and pulled around it. Making a throw away die also lets me keep tailoring it to account for springback... something a "degree indicator" isn't going to help you with. When I need to repeat bends, I just scribe a line and/or clamp a stop, then zing-bang it's go time.

    As I got into bending heavier metal and some tube shapes, I picked up a the Hossfeld. Yeah, I had plans to make a sweet bender, but when the time arose, I had a job to do and time is money, so I ordered a Hossfeld. IMHO, it is a relatively crude tool, but that's OK because it's all operator control anyhoo. As anyone familiar with a Hossfeld style machine knows, you don't rely on the machine for accuracy... it's all in operator patience and diligence. I prefer CNC dies to the Hossfeld factory dies, as they are more accurate. Conversely, Hossfeld has it all figured out and has TONS of dies available... although they will cost you. You have to pay to play.

    Yes, you can roll rings on the Hossfeld... but why bother when you can buy a ring roller on ebay for under $100? Got a lathe? Make some dies. Want to bend stock other than flat bar on your ring roller?... it's all about the dies Don't care about distortion?... Then just bend/roll it on the flat dies and get 'er done.

    I made my own "band roller" because I could. I made it to roll 1/8" -1/4" thick material x 13" wide. It works like a champ... effortlessly. Can I roll tubing on it? Sure, if I made a set of dies for it.... which is a PITA. So I won't. I'll use my cheapo ring roller and make dies for it as necessary. How thick of tubing can I roll on it? Don't know yet... my guess is 2 x 2 x .120 wall will be some workout. But hey, if I got a couple of arches to do, it aint no big deal. If I gots 40 arches to do... time to fork over some coin and get another macheen. Will that macheen be more accurate? No, it will be just as accurate... as I am. It will, however, most likely be motor driven so I won't be sweatin' my *%$&^ off turning that d@mn wheel.

    The Di-acro #2 is very nice and I have a large assortment of dies to go with it. I use it for smaller stuff, especially when I need repeatability and accuracy... which this little machine can offer... accompanied with operator diligence. There are larger versions of this machine, but now that I own a Hossfeld, I'm no longer interested.

    In summary, I am into prototyping and general custom fabrication, so I need a variety of benders and the "universal" Hossfeld comes in handy. If I were making roll cages or doing something else that required a good amount of tube bending, I would not hesitate for a moment to purchase a hydraulic tube bender for good, consistent, accurate mandrel tube bending.

    It all depends on what you're doing and what kind of results you're looking for and what is acceptable for the job at hand.

    As my father always says, "Hit it with a hammer." ...which is what I do a lot of the time. By the time I fumble with all the pins and dies to make a hard 90 degree bend in some bar stock, I could have just hit it a couple of times with a hammer.

    Start bending something, people. Let's see some pics.

    Grumple, my advice is to buy the cheapo ring roller and the HF compact bender. You'll be out $200 and you'll be able to bend so much metal it's sick.

    Good night, everybody!
    Great post!!!
    Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
    Miller DialArc 250
    Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
    Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
    Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
    Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
    South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
    Logan 7" shaper
    Ellis 3000 band saw
    Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
    Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
    3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
    Lots of dust bunnies
    Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chris***@sbcglo View Post
    OK, I'll chime in.

    I have the Hossfeld #2, the Harbor Freight compact bender, a Di-acro #2, the cheapo ebay ring roller, a 52" sheet metal slip roller, and a 13" home-made "band-roller" (for lack of a better term). I've owned several other benders and I've made other benders as well.

    In my experience, bending bar and tubing is all about three things: leverage, the correct die(s), and operator trial and error (emphasis on the latter). Over the years, I've done more stuff on that $79 HF bender or around a sacrificial plywood form than I've done with my more expensive benders. Why? ...Because it's what I had at the time. If it was too hard to pull on the little bender, I just added heat as required. Don't have the right die for a couple of bends?... carved it out with a band saw (jig saw, whatever saw) and pulled around it. Making a throw away die also lets me keep tailoring it to account for springback... something a "degree indicator" isn't going to help you with. When I need to repeat bends, I just scribe a line and/or clamp a stop, then zing-bang it's go time.

    As I got into bending heavier metal and some tube shapes, I picked up a the Hossfeld. Yeah, I had plans to make a sweet bender, but when the time arose, I had a job to do and time is money, so I ordered a Hossfeld. IMHO, it is a relatively crude tool, but that's OK because it's all operator control anyhoo. As anyone familiar with a Hossfeld style machine knows, you don't rely on the machine for accuracy... it's all in operator patience and diligence. I prefer CNC dies to the Hossfeld factory dies, as they are more accurate. Conversely, Hossfeld has it all figured out and has TONS of dies available... although they will cost you. You have to pay to play.

    Yes, you can roll rings on the Hossfeld... but why bother when you can buy a ring roller on ebay for under $100? Got a lathe? Make some dies. Want to bend stock other than flat bar on your ring roller?... it's all about the dies Don't care about distortion?... Then just bend/roll it on the flat dies and get 'er done.

    I made my own "band roller" because I could. I made it to roll 1/8" -1/4" thick material x 13" wide. It works like a champ... effortlessly. Can I roll tubing on it? Sure, if I made a set of dies for it.... which is a PITA. So I won't. I'll use my cheapo ring roller and make dies for it as necessary. How thick of tubing can I roll on it? Don't know yet... my guess is 2 x 2 x .120 wall will be some workout. But hey, if I got a couple of arches to do, it aint no big deal. If I gots 40 arches to do... time to fork over some coin and get another macheen. Will that macheen be more accurate? No, it will be just as accurate... as I am. It will, however, most likely be motor driven so I won't be sweatin' my *%$&^ off turning that d@mn wheel.

    The Di-acro #2 is very nice and I have a large assortment of dies to go with it. I use it for smaller stuff, especially when I need repeatability and accuracy... which this little machine can offer... accompanied with operator diligence. There are larger versions of this machine, but now that I own a Hossfeld, I'm no longer interested.

    In summary, I am into prototyping and general custom fabrication, so I need a variety of benders and the "universal" Hossfeld comes in handy. If I were making roll cages or doing something else that required a good amount of tube bending, I would not hesitate for a moment to purchase a hydraulic tube bender for good, consistent, accurate mandrel tube bending.

    It all depends on what you're doing and what kind of results you're looking for and what is acceptable for the job at hand.

    As my father always says, "Hit it with a hammer." ...which is what I do a lot of the time. By the time I fumble with all the pins and dies to make a hard 90 degree bend in some bar stock, I could have just hit it a couple of times with a hammer.

    Start bending something, people. Let's see some pics.

    Grumple, my advice is to buy the cheapo ring roller and the HF compact bender. You'll be out $200 and you'll be able to bend so much metal it's sick.

    Good night, everybody!
    Chris,
    Great post, lots of info, and fun to read. I am going to just build me a ring roller as the priorities have changed a little where I have more time to make it a project.
    Thanks,
    Grumple
    Oxy/Ac Large Tanks
    Miller Swinger AC 180 (SOLD)
    Miller Syncrowave 250DX Runner with Pulser

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by c wagner View Post
    The dies for the roller I mentioned earlier in this post were all home built, crude but they got the job done. In fact he had 4 different sets of dies, one for bending flat bar, another for angle and two sets for two sizes of square tube.

    I look forward to seeing you machine some nice dies for your "new project"!!!!
    I look forward to that myself! Still have to finish running the emt and wiring.
    Grumple
    Oxy/Ac Large Tanks
    Miller Swinger AC 180 (SOLD)
    Miller Syncrowave 250DX Runner with Pulser

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