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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    SE Virginia
    Posts
    18

    Default This is great

    I love this stuff. As a mechanical engineering degree holder, I find it worthwile to examine any problems like those discussed and hope the library comment didn't offend. I was just trying to bring light to such a topic brought forth by such terrible outcomes. But, this needs to be done, and no participant needs to be silent as any ideas are food for thought.
    Anyway, keep in mind folks, that the car is acting in its own coordinate reference and the driver's reference coordinate is the car around him/her. Whatever the car is going, the driver is not. The resultant forces delivered to the driver are products of the acceleration to the finish, the braking decceleration opposite the first after finish and the driver's momentum as a seperate body still acting in line of the intial acceleration. I'd think i'd start with the max force that the body can safely take and add a factor of safety (say 10%) and aim to find out what it takes to stop the car (i.e. distance, friction surface, chute area, other means) within that max.
    Jeff

    Millermatic 150
    LMSW-52

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Baldwin, NY
    Posts
    275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laiky View Post
    I Agree with you, safety is a challenge, there is no need to shy away or give up. Just like the actual competition, you keep learning and trying. I think for now, getting the cars back in there safety envelope is key (short term). Once the safety catches up, they can open the cars up again. As far as 400mph goes, that will pose a problem for many tracks. Living in the NY metro area, you learn that urban sprawl won't be stopped. The option of increasing run off is really tough. Englishtown has been surrounded with rumors of selling out for years. Every year it gets tougher, the houses get closer, the taxes get higher, people complain more. There used to be a great track called Bridgehampton (road course) that was slowly destroyed by the surrounding neighborhood. Long Island Dragway is now gone, It was a nice local track. I think the speed issue will continue but hopefully they can manage it.
    Long Island Motorsports park was great, I had alot of fun there when I just started out...
    Voigt Precision Welding, Inc.

    Miller Dynasty 200 DX, Miller Syncrowave 250, MillerMatic 252, Hypertherm Powermax 45, Auto Arc Trailpower 8000,272+187 lb Peter Wright anvil, 120 lb Fisher-norris, and more! Buffalo drill press, Grizzly Horiz. Bandsaw, Edwards shear, Barth Shear, bantam mechanical ironworker, Hopkins fly press, Doall Bandsaw, brown and sharpe surface grinder.

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  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East Tennessee
    Posts
    614

    Default

    1000 ft. nitro sucks , jmo .Make the tracks longer. The tracks should have to keep up with the cars , don't hold them back..

  4. #44

    Default

    The track will never keep up with the cars, most tracks don't have the room to expand. Eventually even the long tracks will become compromised as the speeds increase. If you start giving ultimatums to the tracks, you will lose 1/2 of the ones on the tour. Bet on the fact that they are: #1. Going to slow the cars down, #2. Come up with some sort of speed arresting equipment, #3. More flame retardant chute material.

    If I was a betting man, I'd say that they will be working on a whole new set of rules to slow the cars down. Limit compression ratio, smaller superchargers. They should lower the max diplacement also, IMO.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    539

    Default

    One possibility, make the tires narrower.

    Can have all the hp in the world, but if the tires break loose on the launch... = less speed.

    Many forms of racing limit the tires to keep the cars slower and cost under control.

    A good parallel is what NASA went through after the shuttle blew up on launch. How exactly do you shut the engines down safely and get the pilots out alive. Fire bad.

    Once that baby is lit, stand back, it's going some where, fast.

    Ultimatly I think the cars are going to have very sophiticated on board computer systems that monitor everything including the chassis and tires. When a signal is given of imenent failure, safety procedure will be auto initiated shutting down systems in the right order.

    It will be a techinical marvel, given the time required to identify a problem (know what to look for) , formulate action and act.

    Truely, a technical marvel.

    This will seperate the proverbial men from the boys in this game.

    One thing is for sure, there will be additional technical failures. It is the nature of the beast, and the level they are runing at, unavoidable.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Showdog75 View Post
    1000 ft. nitro sucks , jmo .Make the tracks longer. The tracks should have to keep up with the cars , don't hold them back..
    They've been held back for years. There's a long list of rules in the book designed to slow them down. As the crews find work arounds, more rules are enforced. This is just another way to keep them in check and it won't be the last. This one is just more publicized because it's a reaction to a tragedy.

    It's easy to say make the tracks longer, but as stated not all tracks have that luxury. And if they are forced to find land elsewhere, that isn't always an option either, especially in economic times like these. Not to mention, few people want a noisy track in their backyard.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Montgomery, NY
    Posts
    1

    Default

    First post here Hi all.

    Good points involving these problems we experience in the NHRA racing community.

    I am involved in Drag racing and am currently working on completion of a very fast Dragster. I have gone down alot of the tracks on the east coast, less then 8 seconds each time. I have two children and I do everything I can to satisfy my desire for speed to be safe as possible. I help with the fabrication in our shop. My partner is certified to weld. We are in the tail end of finishing his car which is a ProMod. He designs the chassis himself and welds them up.
    His designs, and tube placements, thickness and techniques go above and beyond what NHRA deems legal. Again we have children and will practice above and beyond minimum requirements.

    See there are several real world problems with suggestions on how to correct failures on the track.

    Example: Put a back up chute on car! Wont work, why bye time the backup chute is deployed you are out of track.

    Put fuel shut off after engine failure. Wont work, why bye time you shut the fuel off if the engine is vented in any way the heat from the engine will ignite it. Nitro burns at I think 6500 degrees.
    I think we have pretty dammm good fire suits to prevent life threating burns.

    As far as chute deployment on a funny car they WILL deploy once the body comes off of the car. The chutes are mounted on the body, the rip cord is mounted to the car. Simple body leaves, rip cord stays, chutes deploy.

    The biggest problem with chute failure is the damm debris tearing into the blossoming action! How do you stop that? Simple eliminate the debris.

    The (greatest) problem any driver sees is the sudden stop!

    See I choose to drive a red dragster (Rear engine dragster) because I learned from Don Garlits when he experienced clutch failure and tore he legs up. While in the hospital he designed the RED so he can race again.

    The real problem is slowing the cars to a safe stop. Other racing bodies have taken action in there arena with movable barriers.

    It is sad that tombstone technology is usually what it takes to be safer.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Nesconset NY
    Posts
    74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Badd00SS View Post
    Long Island Motorsports park was great, I had alot of fun there when I just started out...
    Ahh !!!!! L.I.Dragway I know it well,I believe there are condos there now !! Its a shame , and discouraging to go racing now.I feel your pain Bad00SS

  9. #49
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Belle Plaine Iowa
    Posts
    270

    Default

    I have to agree wholeheartedly with Misteryez. I too drive a RED, although much slower. I believe that too many of the rules are set by individuals that have never travel down the racing surface in anything other than a golf cart. Many of the suggestions here are also by people whose only connection with racing is TV. Give us any set of rules and we will figure out how to go faster than the guy in the other lane. That is what is required to win races. Do you really want to see racing scripted like WWE? Well at least it'd be safe.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mxtras View Post
    Racers know the risks. Why is it that people always have to have someone to blame?
    exactly. i road-race motorcycles and i know the risks. we go 150mph on parts of the course and it is dangerous, i have seen people die on the track right in front of me. i take all reasonable means of precaution to insure my safety, but it is not 100% safe. if i had a million dollars to spend on safety then it would be safer, but i don't have a million dollars, but i race motorcycles anyways. not because i am a daredevil or have a death wish, but because i enjoy the challenge and i enjoy this particular activity. i told my wife that if i die in a motorcycle race, then she must tell everyone that eric johanson died simply as a result of "him living life as eric johanson", not because "safety was inadequate."
    miller dynasty 350
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