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  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Kansas City Missouri
    Posts
    84

    Default

    You know I did ask and the Rep said the construction industry is going toward wire welding for everything. After talking to the Rep it just made me practice that much harder on my stick welding skills. I was at one time a good stick welder and since Mig became propular I dropped the stick welder for a Mig welder. Funny that now I'm going back to stick welding and struggling at it...gear

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Noth Dakota
    Posts
    505

    Default

    1/2 in plate,double bevel 4 passes, 2 per side. 1 in plate double bevel 6 passes, 3 per side. Just mig and puddle control.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Stick welding die? I certainly hope not.

    A guy I know runs a structural steel shop. All their procedures are written for stick. It is "what they know" and "what they have always done". Interesting point here is the salesman comes by and talks him into buying a Mig. The guy sends it out to the shop or out to the jobsite and the welders fiddle with it for awhile, determine it is too complex, junk or some other excuse. So it ends up in the corner of the shop. When I query him about the new Mig he claims his procedures are all written for stick. I suggest he write new ones, get some training, whatever. He says "Naaaa, if you want it, take it." I say OK.

    I suspect this may be an isolated case but maybe not. If not, stick will be around a long time.
    First MIG: Miller 172
    Second MIG: Lincoln Idealarc SP-200
    Current MIG: Powcon 400SM & PD 22 feeder
    Jet horiz/vert bandsaw
    Victor O/A torch and regulators
    Jackson NexGen EQC helmet
    Two beagles

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southern Louisiana
    Posts
    421

    Default stick vs. Mig

    both welding processes have there specific benefits, it doesn't come down to welder preferences but to the laws of physics that govern welding.

    comparing the 2 breifly again shows stick welding has a voltage ranging from 11 to 14 typically and amperages in the 100 to 175 range again TYPICALLY.

    Mig welding has voltages ranging from 11 to 30 typically and amperages from 100 to 400 typically.

    compare those in the energy input equation:

    (volts X amps X 60) / travel speed= energy input measured in joules

    one of the main reasons for weaving stick electrodes is to allow the material enough time to preheat and to get penetration. Weaving mig is not required but can be done in some situation if you keep in mind the comparison.

    EXAMPLE:
    stick-------------- mig
    volts 11-----------------19
    amps 140----------------245
    const 60------------------60
    t.s. 6-------------------18
    joules 15,400.00--------15,516.67

    So you can see for the same energy input and it is per inch since we divided by inches mig has the potential for alot more output that stick. That is its major advantage, conversely its downside is the cost of the equipment, set up and most often needing an external shielding gas.

    So to say stick is almost dead is a relative situation depending on the individual market segment they serve. You wont catch an automotive company running stick on their product, but you will find as mentioned above alot of stick where they are running piping.

    For what it is worth.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Hey guys, new here, just thought I'd jump in quick. I'm an ornamental ironworker based in NYC, haven't ever seen a gun going on site with us or the structural guys. Been doing this 20 years, running jobs for about 15. Not actually a welder, but I do try to constantly educate myself and can usually keep up in the conversation. Stick ain't dyin too fast in the construction industry, don't think it ever will. Just my 2 cents.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    There is a lot of wire used in structural Ironwork, more all the time. http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=554182 all innershield, backgouge and weld back in for full pen. That was in the early 80's.
    Last edited by Sberry; 07-14-2008 at 08:09 PM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Abilene, Texas
    Posts
    639

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BudMan580 View Post
    Stick ain't dyin too fast in the construction industry, don't think it ever will.
    Welcome BudMan. You are right on with that statement. Stick will always have a place.
    Jim

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    298

    Default

    The rep might be seeing more MIG and TIG machines go out the door as Stick machines have a very long service life and the methods have not changed all that much.
    Weekend wannab racer with some welders.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    There is a lot of wire used in structural Ironwork, more all the time. http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=554182 all innershield, backgouge and weld back in for full pen. That was in the early 80's.
    Sberry, what did you use the gun on, the spaceframe? Are we talking shop or field? Not saying it can't be or shouldn't be done (I know there've been plenty of times I wish my guys were using MIG), just haven't seen it myself in 20 years in the field.
    Bud
    By the way, can you remember who did the curtain wall on that job?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    This has been a while but seems like a K126 ? LN25's? Held a 13# spool I think. I was on the frame mainly. The pieces were simple fab, ends came beveled and from engineering that obviously never sat on a beam to weld one. They were in reverse. We erected it in 4 pieces on the ground, blocked it all up, set the camber, there were simple temp connection bolts then all tacked up with 6011. Weld a section all together, all ground flush and UT, then 4 big air tuggers hoist it up, weld the bearings on the building, send the rigging down and pull another section up. The ends were 140 T and the centers 160. When the second section come up we pull it all together and weld the splices and the bearings, repeat. I worked for American Bridge mostly in the air after we fab the first piece, hung on floats to do it all. All wire, seems 203. They had a good part of semi trailer full.
    I cant remember who did the wall, seems it was some kind of relatively local contractor. I was sitting on the thing and a granite panel come down, boom, I didn't even look, I knew what happen, a panel come off the 40+ floor and hit it. It was an adventure all its own, Bridge has some real manly tools.
    I had quite a few pics but they were lost in a fire, I even looked for the negs but so far come up empty. They were just ready to start the people mover project right after, I drug up near the end, had something else to go to. Never did go back.

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