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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

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    I have neveer heard what you were told before, and i wouldn't believe it without seeing proof on some testing equipment or from lab tests that have been published

    My coleman Blackmax (13hp 6500w continuous - 8450 peak actually the RMS rating i was surprised to learn) has about 25 - 30 hours on it and still powers my dynasty 200dx all the way to the max amp output without even sounding too different than running a grinder off of it. I've run some real long beads on genny power. Even using high frequencies in the 160 - 200hz at 200 Amps the coleman held it's ground. The very last time i used it I was TIG'ing aluminum and burned some stick at high amps (Cut/Blasting Rod, 7018, 6013, & 6011) just to see what it would do and it ran as goos as it did the day i got it and the generator never even flinched.
    Last edited by turboglenn; 11-02-2008 at 03:36 PM.
    Dynasty 200DX
    Hobart Handler 135
    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
    Hypertherm Powermax 45
    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    It is poor wording by the sales dood.

    This from my Honda EU200i genset

    " Limit operation requiring maximum power to 30 minutes. Maximum power is 2,000va"

    " For continuous operation, do not exceed the rated power. Rated power is 1,600 va"
    yea, the sales guy just used poor words and didn't know the reasons underlying what he was saying.....
    Esab Multimaster
    Esab Migmaster
    Miller 251D
    Miller Bobcat (old old)
    Lincoln Crackerbox
    9,000 SF of crap

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    Fill me in here tho. What you describe isn't so much of an 'ouput' issue as it is an 'engine life' issue. From what I'm getting here is that the engine isn't designed for extended full load duty, not that the genset will start putting out less, ie shortened life expectancy of the engine and not reduced output??

    I visualize full load for whatever length of time I choose to demand it until 1) the engine pukes whether that's three hours or three years, 2) some thermal device on the engine shuts it down, 3) some thermal device on the generator/alternator shuts things down. What I can't visualize is reduced output after thirty minutes.

    Sounds to me like either a misunderstanding on the salesmens part or, still, a marketing style play on words??
    no, it is an output issue insofar as dutycycle is concerned - you are dealing with two mechanical devices here. engine makes rotation and horsepower/torque.... alternator on genset connected to engine converts the rotation and power to electrical power. look up specs on engine power curve, look up specs on alternator, overlay the two and look at the intersecting points for 1800 rpm (if 4 pole alternator) or 3600 rpm (if lower cost 2 pole version - less copper) and there is the point that will define the split between prime and standby power production capacity.

    as for running it till it pukes.... the engine has a set speed. you wont overspeed it but you can burn up the alternator end of the genset if you try to constantly pull out more power than it can handle (it heats up too much and things like solder connecting parts melt)... or (normally worse) the things you have plugged into it....

    IMHO, calculate up the load you think you will be pulling, add 50-100% to that and buy a unit that can do the in a continous use/prime power basis and you will be ok. you will likely use it well within the limits to make it last a long time.
    Last edited by ChiliDog; 11-02-2008 at 04:02 PM.
    Esab Multimaster
    Esab Migmaster
    Miller 251D
    Miller Bobcat (old old)
    Lincoln Crackerbox
    9,000 SF of crap

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

    Default

    If it makes you feel any better, my LWS OSR had called the miller rep for our area on speaker for me and asked about generators and the miller rep said that (at least for my inverter unit) "all you need is a 6500 watt unit to be able to use the dx to it's full capacity" then stated the size of breakers i needed to run and when i looked at the machine (generator), it already had the needed sizes I was pleased to see that at least it was made to operate in the exact areas my welder is, although when one is maxed, so is the other..I'm not really bothered by that because i try not to run anything i own "tapped out" for any longer than absolutely needed just for thoughts of taking care of the machine and it's lifespan what ever it may be (except my motorcycle and 431 horse 4 banger turbo car..they get beat like they're stolen)

    I didn't see what unit you're running but didn't go back to look either, I just think that one can not only "get away" with running a "common man's" style generator but that it can be done more successfully than most think... All i heard was "no way, not happening..bla bla bla" ...untill we got the miller rep on the phone.. When i went to get the genny ( it was barely used... and i mean really barely) the only thing i asked of the guy was to let me fire it up and run some beads at full capacity with my machine while having 2 other objects running off the 115 side (light and a 4.5" angle grinder) and it did it.

    I made him an offer saying that i saw them near his price new (kinda) then he countered with showing me the receipt showing that he bought it when we got hit with our last big twister and lost power for a few days and everyone panicked because it hit a lot of local stores and such... He ran his house off of it for 2 days to keep his food from spoiling along with the meats in the deep freeze...... The oil in it was the factory stuff and still honey colored..sorry to ramble but i always get stoked thinking about the deal i got on such a good geny unit.

    My best advice is, find a generator you want to buy/can afford and either find some one with one or tell the place you want to make sure it will do what you're buying it for. (pawn shops and sporting goods places will usually agree to these types of things...sams club, walmart ..not so much)

    If you get it at wal-mart they have the 30 day no question policy.. if you aren't happy jst return it..... Or take a cover off, remove one wire and say it don't work, then ask for your money because "you've already bought another because you didn't have the time when you needed it to bring yours back"
    Dynasty 200DX
    Hobart Handler 135
    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
    Hypertherm Powermax 45
    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

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