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Thread: Aircraft Alloys

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FusionKing View Post
    BlackBird455...I guess my point is sort of like this...If you wanna weld that stuff on your own plane and fly over your own field all by yourself go ahead and be my guest.
    Otherwise take all your welding books and all other technical manuals along with any advise from people who work with the stuff for a living and toss them in the trash
    Or you could start your own independent testing lab and PROVE the world wrong!
    Some things you just need to have a little faith in the people who came along in this profession before you. Just because something looks good and bends ONCE don't mean jack compared to the millions of cycles something see's in a critical application. Remember each vibration is a cycle so maybe trillions is more like it. You just gotta believe their is a reason why you don't weld it and then put into service. It might be just fine for a thing around the shop or whatever, just not for human movement.
    Couldnt have said it better myself. Unfortunately just because the guy behind the goggles ( or helmet ) thinks it welds well, doesnt mean anything if science doesnt agree.
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  2. #12
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    Default Aircraft Alloys

    Hey Blackbird,
    Check out this article over at ESAB. http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...4-and-7075.cfm
    Tony Anderson is one of the real experts in Aluminum welding. Took a class with him once.

    Good luck,

  3. #13
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    Nov 2007
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    I have some 2024-t4 body panels on a small race car.
    I have welded some small tabs and such on them over the years
    for a "quickie" type of repair or temporary mount for something
    non-critical. All welds looked good and ALL cracked in 4-8
    hours of running. For me welding on 2024 is just a smaller
    cleaner version of duct tape!
    Dave

  4. #14
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    Aug 2007
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    Northern California
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbawelder View Post
    Hey Blackbird,
    Check out this article over at ESAB. http://www.esabna.com/us/en/educatio...4-and-7075.cfm
    Tony Anderson is one of the real experts in Aluminum welding. Took a class with him once.

    Good luck,
    That's an excellent article. It makes the point very clearly that 2024 and 7075 may be used in aircraft, they just aren't welded.

    I was a technical writer at Rockwell on the first B-1 bomber, the one that was cancelled by Jimmy Carter in 1976. Although I wasn't a manufacturing employee, I became quite familiar with the technical aspects of the assembly of the airplane.

    They did almost no welding on the airframe in the B-1. The production models used a great deal of honeycomb aluminum shapes that were primarily glued together. What welding was done was on steel components. Where 2024 and 7075 shapes were used, they were bolted, riveted or glued in place. After reading the article I can see why. The Lincoln article that I quoted earlier just says that 2024 and 7075 aren't weldable, they didn't say why as this article does.


    Thanks.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FusionKing View Post
    BlackBird455...I guess my point is sort of like this...If you wanna weld that stuff on your own plane and fly over your own field all by yourself go ahead and be my guest.
    Otherwise take all your welding books and all other technical manuals along with any advise from people who work with the stuff for a living and toss them in the trash
    Or you could start your own independent testing lab and PROVE the world wrong!
    Some things you just need to have a little faith in the people who came along in this profession before you. Just because something looks good and bends ONCE don't mean jack compared to the millions of cycles something see's in a critical application. Remember each vibration is a cycle so maybe trillions is more like it. You just gotta believe their is a reason why you don't weld it and then put into service. It might be just fine for a thing around the shop or whatever, just not for human movement.
    FUsionking,

    What I sat out to do was to find out the truth in this matter, not to throw manuals in the trash, and prove the world wrong. I wanted to know what was so terribly wrong with 2024 , because in my screwing around, I got some really tough welds on the stuff. I'll admit that saying that I "would fly" on those welds was taking it too far, and you don't have to worry about me flying around my field in my own little "Sparky Model 2024".

    To all the rest of you,

    Thank you for your great information. It has opened my eyes to the truth of 2024. I can for once delete all the old info that I had from "old guys" that I used to work with. The ones that have been "around for so long". One of the guys that convinced me that you CAN weld it , enlisted in the air force WHEN THE PLANES STILL HAD PROPS, if you know what I mean. I think he might have been confused while talking about the alloys, as he usually was confused as to what day it was.
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  6. #16
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    Blackbird455: ...I think he might have been confused while talking about the alloys, as he usually was confused as to what day it was.
    WOW!! Why you getting personal with ME now??? What did I do to p**s you off!!!!!!!!!!
    400 square feet of Sanford and Son lookin shop space
    You've seen my house???
    Last edited by Bert; 03-18-2008 at 04:32 AM. Reason: add to post
    I'm not late...
    I'm just on Hawaiian Time

  7. #17
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    Blackbird455...I'm cool... yea the I'd fly statement sorta had me going, but I say things just to get a response myself and by doing so you started one of the better threads on aluminum for quite awhile...keep it up

    I like controversy...boring threads suck

    BTW where in the he!! are you???

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird455 View Post
    FUsionking,
    I can for once delete all the old info that I had from "old guys" that I used to work with. The ones that have been "around for so long". One of the guys that convinced me that you CAN weld it , enlisted in the air force WHEN THE PLANES STILL HAD PROPS, if you know what I mean. I think he might have been confused while talking about the alloys, as he usually was confused as to what day it was.
    Well he was probably right. Like I said before, welding 2024 WAS common in the prop era, but they had facilities to heat treat the parts after, both in construction and repair. There were also methods to anneal 2024 for a short time to work it onto forms and bucks, and it would return to its previous temper after 48 hours or so natrually.

    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

    Miller Dynasty 300DX
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    Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
    Miller Millermatic Passport

    Miller Spot Welder
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    Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

  9. #19
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    Yu know I can think of more than one old guy I told was FOS and then realize now that I was....too bad they're dead

    Made sure I let my dad know from time to time when I discover just how smart he was...sure makes him feel good...he just turned 80

    www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
    Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
    MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
    Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
    Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

    Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
    Miller 30-A Spoolgun
    Miller WC-115-A
    Miller Spectrum 300
    Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
    Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

  10. #20
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    Congrats To Your Dad!!!!!!!
    I'm not late...
    I'm just on Hawaiian Time

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