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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    157

    Default oops

    When i went back and re read your post saw your problem.

    Rewire your plug.

    The green is the ground, white and black go to each pole. Your receptacle is wired correctly, but they used the wrong colored wire.

    Let us know how your welder is

    J

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Blackbird send some pics of your plug you replaced and your breaker box so we can see how it wired.
    Last edited by hytekredneck; 03-05-2008 at 06:48 PM. Reason: misspell

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    should be black and white to the spades (sides) green center or 1/2 round
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    National City CA
    Posts
    1,086

    Default Wire size

    Ok I've seen lot of people recommending 6 awg for a welder on a 60 amp circuit Please note (and I'm knit picking here) that 6 awg thhn or thwn is NOT rated for 75 amps when in conduit. It's only rated for 65 amps. I say 75 amps due to a 125% factor for wire size. I build all my circuits so that the wire size will safely handle 125% of the maximum amperage the appliance is capable of pulling.

    It goes like this: Welder is rated at 60 Amp max I'd pull 4 awg rated at 85 amps and install a 70 amp fused disconnect. Fuses protect the wire not the machine because it is the wire that will burn your house down. And you must add an additional 25% if using a breaker. Breakers typically are down graded by about 15% so that 100 amp breaker will pop at 115 give or take. and a 50 amp will pop at 57 also give or take.
    Now I said I was knit picking and this is why. How often will the machine be operated at full load and for how long? Usually it's not much and not long.
    And there is a give amount of safety factor built in to the wire so exceeding the rating a little bit for a limited amount of time should not hurt anything.
    But I like my home and don't want something to happen to it and then find out my insurance will not pay up because the wiring powering my now black welder was "not to code"

    So wire your stuff up with as much overage as you can afford. I know coper is expensive.
    And size your breakers/fuses over what the machine will pull max and size your wire over that.
    This way no one can ever say anything about bad wiring.
    Kerry
    Miller Syncrowave 200 W/Radiator 1A & water cooled torch
    Millermatic 252 on the wish list
    Bridgeport Mill W/ 2 axis CNC control
    South bend lathe 10LX40
    K.O. Lee surface grinder 6X18
    Over 20 years as a Machinist Toolmaker
    A TWO CAR garage full of tools and a fridge full of beer
    Auto shades are for rookies
    www.KLStottlemyer.com

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    sounds like it would be a good idea to have an electrician look over the hole setup for ya. always better to spend $60-$70 for a quick look then to suffer the loss if its not right.
    wile there is always great advice on the net, its your house on the line. is keeping it safe worth $70.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    157

    Default wire size

    In the previous post I mention 6g wire for a max 50A draw. For 60A the wire should be 4g.

    When I went back and re-read I noticed this:

    "the plug and receptacle that i replaced have the white in the center, and the green, and black on either side.........."
    Obviously the plug is wired incorrectly.

    The receptacle is incorrectly wired using a green wire as one of the hots from the double pole breaker. Although confusing, it should not effect the operation regardless of the colors, as long as the wires go to the correct terminals. My guess is he copied the colors from the receptacle when wiring the plug and there lies the problem.

    That mistake by the person who originally wired the receptacle could have cost him the welder...

    John

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    flat , and lots of dirt
    Posts
    123

    Thumbs up

    This is a testament to the quality of MILLER welders.


    I re-wired the whole thing(plug, recepticle, breaker box) , and found my mistake. I actually read the instructions this time, the MILLER manual says that green goes to ground, and the other two go to "hot". All it was was a wire color problem, and , fortunately, it is resolved. The paperwork with the plug and recepticle said "white in the middle", so thats what I did.


    Essentially what I had was a NEW WELDER that had a "hot" ground !!!!
    Fortunately I never moved te working clamp without gloves on.

    The Syncrowave is welding beautifully, beyond my expectations, am seeing results like I saw on an inverter based machine last year.

    Arcs are leaping out to go to work in DC, and A/C is flawless.

    Miller truly makes a good machine, this one had three weeks of welding on
    incorrect wiring, and has survived without a scratch !!!!!!

    Thank you MILLER for a great machine!!!!!!!!!!!
    Oh ,and , whats up with the wooden wedge in the transformers??
    Uhh, hello, they make this Phenolic stuff you know!!!!

    Just kidding !!!!!!!!

    Thank you all for your advice too !!!!!!!!!!!!
    SYNCROWAVE 200
    Atlas 618 lathe (vintage 1960) reconditioned DC
    Sioux 3/8 Pneumatic Reversible Drill
    Makita Everything else
    2400 square feet of Sanford and Son lookin shop space
    "Once the spoon flys, putting the pin back in won't solve anything"
    USA 15T, 15V

    www.myspace.com/blackbird455

    http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...5/DSC00356.jpg two cans, one welder

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    157

    Default

    I had a feeling it would be ok! Glad to hear it all worked out.

    John

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    National City CA
    Posts
    1,086

    Default

    Handy560
    I wasn't singling you out, I've just seen this topic come up again and again.
    Miller Syncrowave 200 W/Radiator 1A & water cooled torch
    Millermatic 252 on the wish list
    Bridgeport Mill W/ 2 axis CNC control
    South bend lathe 10LX40
    K.O. Lee surface grinder 6X18
    Over 20 years as a Machinist Toolmaker
    A TWO CAR garage full of tools and a fridge full of beer
    Auto shades are for rookies
    www.KLStottlemyer.com

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    186

    Unhappy

    <snip>
    Thank you MILLER for a great machine!!!!!!!!!!!
    Oh ,and , whats up with the wooden wedge in the transformers??
    Uhh, hello, they make this Phenolic stuff you know!!!!
    <snip>
    I'm very glad to hear that it was only your wall socket wiring. For a while, I was concerned that you might have damaged your welder but I suspect that the builders figured on protection for low voltage conditions.

    There is nothing wrong with using wood for spacers in a transformer, by the way. Wood is a superb dielectric. I watched a show on the History Channel the other night about how high voltage utility transformers are made. They use rolls of paper and string to hold them together while they wind the wire and then dump them into a can full of oil to kep them cool. Some of those are at extremely high voltage so paper must be OK.

    Whenever I hook up a 220 VAC socket I will use a VOM to check for proper voltage from each line to ground and across the lines. I must be doing something right. I wired my shop for my 220 single phase tools in 1970 and I haven't kicked a breaker yet.

    Happy Trails!

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