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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Crossville, TN
    Posts
    87

    Default

    Do not try to TIG brass, the zinc will boil out, ruining your day. I ruined a good valve this way.

    The way I would do this is an o/a setup using silver brazing rod. My second choice would be red loctite.

    BTW, welcome to the board, Jerry. I moved up to top floater when you retired. Moved to permanent 1st this year.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    600

    Default

    get some silicon bronze electrode ECuSn (stick or wire, i'd use stick) zzzzzzzt, zzzzzt,
    done.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    National City CA
    Posts
    1,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerometalworker View Post
    I take it the adapters thread onto the existing fitting on the hydrant? Dont shoot me for being in left field here but, why not use something along the lines of Loctite High Strength Bearing Mount with Primer N on the threads before assembing it? With the ammount of force required to break it free, its basicly permanent, and helps seal. We use it at work for all of out large fittings. Just a thought.

    -Aaron
    I was going to suggest the same thing Bearing mount green locktight or High strength red made for large diameters. a little acetone and a hydrant wrench and that adapter will be on there forever.
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  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    600

    Default

    hmmmmm,
    LockTite $300 per quart (these are loose threads, for easy hook up, you'll need a lot of LockTite)
    ECuSn $20 per 5#
    drive up, remove cap, squirt LockTite, thread on adaptor, come back next day to replace cap (you sure don't want no stray LockTite lockin' that cap on)
    drive up, remove cap, thread adaptor, weld, cap.

    gee, cheaper and easier to weld.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Bosque Farms, NM
    Posts
    10

    Default

    My choices would be:

    1) Low temp flux coated silver, a little pricey, but strong as all get out and flows like water.

    or

    2) Brush and flux the treads and use plain old 50/50 solder(or 80/20, or 90/10 or 95/5, whatever) and sweat it just like copper plumbing fittings. A small rosebud should work well to get enough heat around the fitting to flow the solder through the threads.

    Just my 2c.

    Good luck, let us know how it works out.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Lancaster, Pa
    Posts
    431

    Default Pictures

    Here are some pictures of what I'll be dealing with. I added one of the full length out of the ground so you could see what they look like and why so much water gushes out during an accident. The stopper is at the bulb out in the bottom with a 1" stem that goes the whole way to the top.

    The threads are 2-1/2" on the side and 4-1/2" on the front. The adapters must be attached permanently according to our accountant, I know, sounds crazy. If it is to be paid out of (A) account, it has to be mounted permanently, otherwise, it needs to be paid out of (B) account which is not desirable by the office. Im not sure lock-tite would be the answer.

    I am considering most suggestions, however, on the silver rods, I notice they come in different %'s like 5, 10, etc, which would be best. I also heard from one of the workers the other day that some of these older fittings are leaded in which creates a whole new problem seeing how lead has a low melting point.

    Also, the threads are sloppy on hydrants, would heating it up, threading it on tight, then letting it cool work with sloppy threads ?
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  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    835

    Default Heat is your enemy

    The original fitting could have been press fitted. Also, I would be very surprized if it wasn't bronze, due to higher corrosion resistance. They appear very similar.

    Given the differing thermal coeficient of expansion (6e-6 in/F for cast iron and 10e-6 in/F for bronze and brass), you want to do this as quickly and with as little heat as possible. Since the material with the HIGHER coef. of expansion is on the INSIDE, heating it a lot will cause the cast iron to bust from the induced pressure.

    Answering your question about silver brazing rods, I use no less than 15% silver for brazing air conditioning lines... copper to copper alloys. But I'd recommend a 45% flux coated silver brazing rod for this job because you don't need a lot of heat to make it flow.

    It is expensive - about 10 dollars a rod - but I have made perfect joints with it connecting copper lines to steel lines. I've even used it to braze over chrome plating. The stuff will flow over almost anything. The ones I buy have a bright orange flux on them. They can be had from a good HVAC supplier.

    You'll need about 1 rod for each of these joints. DEFINATELY don't need an inch of braze. Just enough to wet it like solder.

    If the original fittings are indeed leaded in place, you will be limited to a cold joint method. Brazing or welding will quickly melt out the lead, and you will be totally screwed. You COULD possibly solder the new one on with a low temperature eutectic solder, but you will be running pretty close to the edge. Just use one 3 dollar tube of red locktite on each adaptor.

    BTW I have TIG welded brass and success depends on the zinc content. Some brasses have less zinc and can be tigged with great results.
    Last edited by Bodybagger; 03-01-2008 at 08:42 PM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    North of Phila. PA
    Posts
    404

    Default

    If they were soldered in originally how about a mecahnical fastener? Thread the two pieces together and drill and tap a hole. Run in a set screw and then drill out the allen or fill it so it can't be removed. A little leakage won't hurt.

    How about just plain old 2 part epoxy. Devcon makes a huge range of epoxy adhesives and with all that surface area you'll never get them loose. Many are thicker than locktite.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Raymore Missouri
    Posts
    1,920

    Default

    Drill and drive steel pins flush
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  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    600

    Default

    from the info given this is an in situ job, so GTAW and GMAW are out, soldering? (hard or soft) silly, why put all that heat into the part?, same goes for brazing.
    epoxy? hmmm. feasible, but expensive and messy. there are one part adhesives up to the task, but price could be a concern, any adhesive has the same problem as LockTite, that is, capping the hydrant, you do not want to glue the cap on.
    LockTite? i've discussed that.
    screws, pins, etc. too time consuming.
    i'm telling you, SMAW with bronze electrodes, lowest heat input, permanant join, cheapest, easiest, quickest, depending on your artistic nature, 2 small beads at 180 degrees, 3 at 120, 4 at 90, 6 at 60, a full bead is not necessary.

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