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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    231

    Default

    OK, so by now everyone on the board is aware that Engloid needs to recommend for purchase some machines for his employer. We've heard it now several times and Miller reading this board is aware of it. People on the board also are in agreement about the 'hole' that the missing 300DX has created. So now what? How many machines do you need to recommend for purchase? 12,25,50? That is still small potatoes for a corporation the size of ITW. They will tell you that all of their customers matter---but like any company, some customers matter a lot more than others. Miller works with users to develop products that meet the requirements of that particular niche. Think of the Aerowave--a truly special purpose machine. If you are serious about your concerns for this 'hole' in the tig lineup, then you need to explore other avenues which will have far greater impact than this messageboard. Put together a reasoned and sound explanation of your concerns and needs, quantify to the best of your ability the scope of impact that missing the 300dx has on your business as well as others like yours, and then finally arrange a meeting with Miller's GTAW marketing and development groups, and have a discussion. It's all about dollars and cents. If there is a need and enough money to be made, then they will go for it.

    -dseman

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Queens NY
    Posts
    1,547

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    They won't just be losing 12 or 25 machines. They will lose the good experience the customer has, they will lose the good impression the weldors have (and pass on). They will lose on the premise that the weldors using those great blue machines might buy one them selves, they will lose on the customers or visitors not seeing blue and not being impreseed by it etc, etc.
    Dynasty 200 DX
    Millermatic 175
    Spectrum 375
    All kinds of Smith OA gear

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    694

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    Quote Originally Posted by dseman View Post
    OK, so by now everyone on the board is aware that Engloid needs to recommend for purchase some machines for his employer. We've heard it now several times and Miller reading this board is aware of it. People on the board also are in agreement about the 'hole' that the missing 300DX has created. So now what? How many machines do you need to recommend for purchase? 12,25,50? That is still small potatoes for a corporation the size of ITW.
    With that attitude, it's a good thing you're not in their customer service department, or in sales... or they'd be in worse shape.
    Quote Originally Posted by dseman View Post
    They will tell you that all of their customers matter---but like any company, some customers matter a lot more than others. Miller works with users to develop products that meet the requirements of that particular niche.
    You fail to notice that is the problem... Where is the niche that needs the 350 Dynasty? What features makes it a necessity, or even their best option?
    Quote Originally Posted by dseman View Post
    Think of the Aerowave--a truly special purpose machine. If you are serious about your concerns for this 'hole' in the tig lineup, then you need to explore other avenues which will have far greater impact than this messageboard. Put together a reasoned and sound explanation of your concerns and needs, quantify to the best of your ability the scope of impact that missing the 300dx has on your business as well as others like yours, and then finally arrange a meeting with Miller's GTAW marketing and development groups, and have a discussion.
    You say they dont care about the FEW machines I may buy, and it does seem that may be the case...based on the response I have NOT gotten from any posts on the topic... I don't think I want to waste my time doing their research and homework for them.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    765

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH View Post
    I've been a member for awhile now but just lurk the forum, I couldn't resist responding to this though. I also think that Miller has made a mistake by leaving such a gap between the 200 and 350. I'm in the market for another machine, and buying another 350 is too much. The 200 is a tad shy on amps. I think Miller should come out with a 275. I personally think a 275 would be an awesome machine. Not to big, not to small.

    just my 2 cents- Jeff
    This is what i see in the single phase DC TIG ratings,

    Dynasty200 is rated
    100amps at 100% duty cycle
    150amps at 60%

    Dynasty300 is rated
    180amps at 100% duty cycle
    200amps at 40% duty cycle

    Dynasty350 is rated
    180amps at 100% duty cycle
    225amps at 60% duty cycle

    Syncrowave 250
    200amps at 60% duty cycle
    250amps at 40% duty cycle

    Syncrowave350
    300amps at 60% duty cycle
    350amps at 40% duty cycle

    The problem is the Dynastys names are over-rated. The Dynasty200 name is over rated worst, it should be a Dynasty160 or 175 at most.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    231

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    Quote Originally Posted by Engloid View Post
    With that attitude, it's a good thing you're not in their customer service department, or in sales... or they'd be in worse shape.
    I don't work for Miller, Hobart, ITW, Lincoln, Thermadyne, or anyone in the welding industry, but I do work for a major corporation in another industry. If I'd be working in customer service or sales, I'd be working to find answers to your questions if marketing or development would provide them to me---really. In my work I've had to deal with an unhappy customer when a product I co-developed didn't work in their application as "they" thought it should ($50million on the line), and I've always worked my hardest to satisfy them if at all possible. You say I have a bad attitude. I don't think so. I'm trying to help you by steering you in the direction where your voice could be heard most prominently.

    Engloid, I respect you and your chops....really. Its just that people get a distorted view of how corporations work by being on this board for any length of time. Someone buys a welder, has a problem, and then comes here and whines until they get resolution--that's good. Then others come to believe that they can directly influence Miller's roadmap. Well they may be of some influence through marketing discussions, or if you are a big customer you can get Miller to create a unique machine for your needs---the Aerowave I believe. Now you need some machines, I understand. But have you contacted the TIG department directly about this issue? Seriously, you'll get much further ahead if you present your case directly to them, especially if you have revenue or expenditure data to back up your concerns. What if you had to buy the 350s and say it was twice the cost of the 300s. Have you discussed with your accountants how much longer it would take to write-off the cost of the machines? You work for a profitable company, right? Are you saying that they couldn't recoup the extra cost of the 350 in a timely manner? Labor costs are usually considerably more than equipment expenditures. I'm not saying here that the 350 gives you the extra features that you need above the 300, I'm just looking at the cost for this example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Engloid;
    You fail to notice that is the problem... Where is the niche that needs the 350 Dynasty? What features makes it a necessity, or even their best option?
    That I don't know. I know I don't need one.Have you contacted the TIG department for application information? Someone there should be able to tell you WHY they made the changes that they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Engloid;
    You say they dont care about the FEW machines I may buy, and it does seem that may be the case...based on the response I have NOT gotten from any posts on the topic... I don't think I want to waste my time doing their research and homework for them.
    Well I'm sorry to hear that. But if I was this worked up about it, you'd better believe I'd be contacting them. But that's up to you.

  6. #26

    Default Niche

    I think the niche they need to fill is a 208/230 volt single phase only shop tig machine on the order of the Shopmate 300DX. I would like the single phase capabilities of the dynasty 350DX but it would be foolish of me to spend the money on an expensive 1/3 phase machine that will spend the rest of its life in a single phase shop. I would assume that it would be cheaper to make a single phase 208/230 volt only machine if the sales volume is there. I believe that the sales volume is there as there are many who have single phase only. I think the apparent success of Thermal Arcs 185 AC/DC Arcmaster shows that people will buy a 208/230 volt single phase machine that is cheaper and simpler than the equivalent 1/3 phase machine.

    RonL

  7. #27

    Default

    Wow.

    First, let's say this.
    Nice welds KB...Could use less pos amperage or more balance. You still have an excessive cleaning zone.

    We absolutely know where our holes are and second, why would we tell the world our long term goals just to have the competition run to fill them.

    About the $$ difference, if one was to compare costs, the list price of the Dynasty 300 Tigrunner at $7971, the D350 TR is barely $300 more. When shopping for the Ferrari of Tig welders, do you really haggle over the $300??

    Now I know some would say YES, but in the big picture, the industrial customer or heavy Aluminum customer this machine was designed for has no issue with the cost verses the added features.

    Be advised, we know what the market wants, and the plans have been on paper long before anyone here thinks they know better.

    That said, I still have my Dynasty 300s and still love them but....when I get enough $ saved and sell one more of my D300s, Ill purchase a D350. I like the VP plus the different wave shapes. The soft square is easier on the ears and easier on the tungsten and my favorite of the 4 shapes. The added freq with small tung in tight places is pretty cool too.

    We are here and even though we don't address every "are you listening MILLER" comment, we do know welding and we do know how our strategy, design, field testing and introduction to market timing. We won't release product before it's reliably ready.

    I hope this soothes some of your concerns. The Dynasty 350 was not designed to increase the gap between the have or have nots, can or can not afford. For the product and added features, the $300 increase was needed and to have two 300 tig power sources in such a close price range really didn't make sense.

    Thanks!

    Andy

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Queens NY
    Posts
    1,547

    Default

    cyberweld lists the d350 tig runner at $6,611
    Dynasty 200 DX
    Millermatic 175
    Spectrum 375
    All kinds of Smith OA gear

  9. #29

    Default

    Coal,

    I'm not bashing anyone. It would just not be responsible to admit to any of our strategies before it was ready to pull the trigger. Sometimes saying or admitting we hear and understand is the same as admitting it's on it's way in some peoples eyes.

    I agree 100% in that you have to justify the expendature. I think it's the people that WANT the high end technology stuff and are mad that the cost are just a wee bit too high. I lived with my Syncrowaves for years until I could AFFORD a Dynasty. I'm no different with my business.

    Happy welding in the great North Coal!

    A

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    2,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ASKANDY View Post
    Wow.

    First, let's say this.
    Nice welds KB...Could use less pos amperage or more balance. You still have an excessive cleaning zone.
    Thanks Andy. Like I said, those welds were on a 2 to 1 ratio of EN to EP. I have a lot more work to do with it. I have been playing with some more settings and am inching towards a 3 to 1 ratio. We'll see how it goes.

    KB

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