Miller Electric

Welding Discussion Forums

Home » Resources » Communities » Welding Discussion Forums
 
Miller Welding Discussion Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    turbo38t Guest

    Default 3G and 6G AWS tests.

    Cann anyone break down these certification tests detail by detail for me? I am going to be taking both of them through work in the next 2 months or so with E71M FCAW and 7018 SMAW on 1" plate. I believe this certifies me for any position with these electrodes. Am I correct? For the tests how do I prepare the coupons? How big, what kind of bevel, how precise does the bevel have to be, do I use a backing plate, if so what thickness? Do I cut the backing plate off afterwards etc? I appreciate any answers or info. Thanks. Dave

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    732

    Default

    Hi Dave;

    Thats a big question, I would normal have you attend class for 3-6 weeks to answer all of that and to prep you for the test. Part of the problem is I have know idea of your skill level and I doubt that you have ever seen the code book that the test will follow, so we can't talk and look at the code and discuss your questions.

    I would go to the administrator of the test (company QC Dept. head) and ask him/her what you need to know. If you can find an old copy of AWS D1.1 Structural Steel welding code book, new they are $300.00+ that might help.

    You will most likely get a host of answers and half will be half wrong.

    Basic AWS Unlimited thickness groove weld is with backing 1/4" or 3/8" on 1" plate, groove is 60deg. included with 1/8" -1/4" gap 3G will be all up.

    6G will be on pipe. So I think you are going to do the standard plate test of a 4G .
    To be fully qualified in both processes you will do a 3G and 4G with each process.

    The wire test for both positions should take about 3 hours any longer and I stare to look sideways at your resume', the stick test will go on for ever so don't make your bevel any bigger than required. Just burn hot and keep the arc on the edges of the groove.


    If you know how to weld this should be no big deal. It is the minimum test for all the welders I hire.


    TJ
    TJ______________________________________

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bertram TX
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Are you going to an "accredited test facility"? Just curious since it has recently been a topic of discussion at work lately. There are only TWO AWS Accredited Test Facilities in Texas and they're both over 200 miles away. Also AWS won't take an application stamped by a CWI (ask me how I know)

    As for your testing, 3/4 plate qualifies for unlimited and you have to do 3G and 4G. 6G is the 45degree pipe in the fixed position. This seems like an awful amout of money to be spent on certification. I'd just do the pipe. That'll impress your future boss. Hopefully some more experienced guys will respond to your post who know the inner workings of the industry better.

    I'm only speculating that you would have to call the testing facility and find out if they do a bend test, nick test, xray or whatever
    I'd say Good Luck but you probably don't need luck
    Matt Adams A&P, IA
    Trailblazer 302
    Dialarc HF

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    732

    Default

    Any employer an certify you to be a AWS qualified welder.
    Just by following the steps laid out in AWS code books under prequalified procedures and welder qualifications.
    Plate test under AWS D1.1 prequalified limited test using 3/8" plate qualifies you up to 3/4" plate and unlimited using 1" plate.
    A 6g pipe test could qualify you for unlimited plate, has to be the correct test, and I don't think a prequalified procedure exists in AWS D1.1 for pipe.
    If you come to an employer with just a pipe cert, in Alaska any way, they think you are just going to work till the next shutdown or pipe line starts up.

    TJ
    TJ______________________________________

  5. #5
    turbo38t Guest

    Default

    What are the minimum sizes for the 3g and 4g plates for the test, i.e.- width, height. Thanks. Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
    Hi Dave;

    Thats a big question, I would normal have you attend class for 3-6 weeks to answer all of that and to prep you for the test. Part of the problem is I have know idea of your skill level and I doubt that you have ever seen the code book that the test will follow, so we can't talk and look at the code and discuss your questions.

    I would go to the administrator of the test (company QC Dept. head) and ask him/her what you need to know. If you can find an old copy of AWS D1.1 Structural Steel welding code book, new they are $300.00+ that might help.

    You will most likely get a host of answers and half will be half wrong.

    Basic AWS Unlimited thickness groove weld is with backing 1/4" or 3/8" on 1" plate, groove is 60deg. included with 1/8" -1/4" gap 3G will be all up.

    6G will be on pipe. So I think you are going to do the standard plate test of a 4G .
    To be fully qualified in both processes you will do a 3G and 4G with each process.

    The wire test for both positions should take about 3 hours any longer and I stare to look sideways at your resume', the stick test will go on for ever so don't make your bevel any bigger than required. Just burn hot and keep the arc on the edges of the groove.


    If you know how to weld this should be no big deal. It is the minimum test for all the welders I hire.


    TJ

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    732

    Default

    You'll need 1" plate about 9" long X 4" wide with a backing plate of 12". Bevel approximately 30deg the 9" edge of both plates and tack them about 1/4" apart to the backing. Then tack the whole thing into the position and weld.

    When finished cut the coupons from the plate. I think you'll need four pieces to do four side bends. Two from the upper half two from the lower. Remove the backing get it close with a O/A torch then take it just to the parent metal with a grinder, do not remove any of the parent metal. Then bend around a mandrill, I don't remember the radius of the plunger.

    It passes if first it did not brake and it has no discontinuity's grater than the code allows.

    You'll need to check all the dimensions with the code you are testing to, I am taking all of this from memory, and the first rule about codes never trust your memory, read the code.

    TJ
    TJ______________________________________

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bertram TX
    Posts
    157

    Default Oops, you're right

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
    Plate test under AWS D1.1 prequalified limited test using 3/8" plate qualifies you up to 3/4" plate and unlimited using 1" plate.


    TJ
    I always get that confused. The part I don't get about AWS certification is how can a company say your certified if AWS doesn't recognize it?
    I've been going to school every night for over 2 years and I have 4 days left in my advanced pipe class and there's a few of us trying to figure this certification business out.
    Matt Adams A&P, IA
    Trailblazer 302
    Dialarc HF

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    732

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    I always get that confused. The part I don't get about AWS certification is how can a company say your certified if AWS doesn't recognize it?
    I've been going to school every night for over 2 years and I have 4 days left in my advanced pipe class and there's a few of us trying to figure this certification business out.
    Who has told you that AWS won't recognize an AWS certification.


    AWS sets out in D1.1 all the requirements to qualifying a welder. End of story.



    This is the forward from AWS D1.3 the sheet metal code

    One of the primary objectives of this code is to define the allowable capacities used in sheet steel applications
    which the transfer of calculated load occurs. The foremost examples of such applications are steel decks, panels, storage
    racks, and stud and joist framing members. It is a concurrent objective of this code to impose workmanship, technique,
    and qualification requirements so as to effect consistently sound execution of welding of joints in these categories.
    Certain shielded metal arc, gas metal arc, gas tungsten arc, gas metal arc and flux cored arc welding procedure specifications
    (WPSs) when used with certain types of joints, have been tested by users and have a history of satisfactory performance.
    These WPSs are designated as prequalified, may be employed without further evidence, and include most of
    those that are commonly used. However, the purpose of defining prequalified WPSs is not to preclude the use of other
    WPSs as they are qualified.
    When other processes, WPSs, or joints are proposed, they are subject to the applicable provisions of this code and
    shall be qualified by tests. The obligation is placed on the contractor to prepare WPSs and qualify them before production
    use.
    All WPSs (prequalified and qualified) must include the classification of the filler metal, its size, and for each type of
    weld, its melting rate or other suitable means of current control indicative of the melting rate, as applicable. The requirements
    for the qualification of welders and welding operators are also given. Welder qualification test requires each
    welder to prove their ability to produce satisfactory welds using these prequalified or qualified WPSs.
    Although this code is essentially directed at those joints that are used to transfer loads, the quality of welds where
    strength is not a governing consideration should meet the quality standards that will maintain the integrity of the supporting
    structure. The allowable capacity provisions of section 2 could be disregarded when the welds are not used in
    load-carrying capacity.
    Comments and suggestions for the improvement of this standard are welcome. They should be sent to the D1 Secretary,
    American Welding Society, 550 N.W. LeJeune Road, Miami, FL 33126.
    Official interpretations of any of the technical requirements of this standard may be obtained by sending a request,
    writing, to the D1 Secretary, American Welding Society, 550 N.W. LeJeune Road, Miami, FL 33126 (see Annex B).


    TJ
    TJ______________________________________

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bertram TX
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
    Who has told you that AWS won't recognize an AWS certification.

    TJ
    The stinkin head of certification at AWS. He said since I didn't go to an "Accredited Test Facility" they wouldn't accept an application for certification signed and stamped by an AWS Certified Welding Inspector.

    Now I've got people telling me if you have the paper you're certified but if AWS won't issue a card that tells me my cert isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Heck, it took me a whole week just to get someone on the phone so my opinion of this organization is a little low right now. AND I sent in the application last December and nobody there felt the need to contact me about my application. I had to call and leave several voice-messages to track down the results myself. just a note.... there's no "Accredited Test Facility" in Alaska so I guess welders up there are just out of luck!
    Matt Adams A&P, IA
    Trailblazer 302
    Dialarc HF

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    732

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    certification signed and stamped by an AWS Certified Welding Inspector.>>>

    just a note.... there's no "Accredited Test Facility" in Alaska so I guess welders up there are just out of luck!
    Take that signed stamped paper you have from the CWI make copies lots of copies make some reduced copies for your wallet. Then any time you work to one of your certs have the inspector. company owner, supervisor, job foreman date and initial the copy in you wallet. Have that done once every five months and 28 days and your certs will be good for life.


    you don't need anything from AWS!

    Reality when you go apply for a job I am going to make you test all over again to my procedure and when you leave my employment you are not going to take any cert papers with my company name on them with you. Why because I paid you to test I paid to write up the procedure and the cert is useless out side of my company.

    You can test your self and certify yourself to AWS D1.1. I did it and it is 100% legitimate.


    TJ
    TJ______________________________________

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Welding Projects

Special Offers: See the latest Miller deals and promotions.