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  • #16
    HMW,
    I think you missed the answer in a previous post. As I read it, the reasoning for pure DC machines was that they did not have the ability to produce AC output, so the operator could not switch and run rods with AC when no-one was looking.

    I could be wrong. It's what I understood.
    Later,
    Later,
    Jason

    Professional Spark Generator by Trade.

    Comment


    • #17
      Personaly I cant stand AC and most of the guys I know prefere DC as well. It's just smoother, so I can't figure out why they'd want to use AC anyways. Not to metion cover passes are usually done with 7018 and similar rods so thats just the added pain in the azz of having to switch polarity all the time. For some that mite not seem that bad but some of those guys burn a lot of rod in 8 hours and would probably get anoyed after a while. It sounds like a load of garbage to me. Personaly I think that if you think that the machine matters that much then you don't know enough about welding to go near an oil pipeline or refinery.

      just my 2 cents

      Comment


      • #18
        lincoln/ miller

        I have heard this also....that Millers get laughed off the job and didnt understand since our shop has 18 Millers. I called my cousin that works in Colorado because he is a pipeline welder.....he told me that this all started years ago and that was because Lincoln makes the rods and would only guarantee welds that was done with Lincoln welders.....He said their entire crew is Lincoln's but he was not sure if that deal about Lincoln rods had to be burned by Lincoln welders was still in effect but the teasing was still going on when someone showed up blue......

        Just what he told me......

        Comment


        • #19
          Yeah, I read that too, just can't figure out what benefit it would be for the welder to do that. Unless they [the welder] would rather use a different rod than is specified. My understanding is 6010 is for the root pass and is a DC rod. What woudl they use 6011 on AC ???? Not sure. I bet its all a bunch of crap
          Scott
          HMW [Heavy Metal welding]

          Comment


          • #20
            I can't comment on engine drive welders or pipelining but I have yet to find a lincoln in any shop that can keep up with a Miller. The old MP-30's in our shop are THE best welding machines I have ever used for Mig; the cv-300s can't compare. As well, the Dialarcs that we have at school will lay a way nicer bead than any red box I have ever tried. Not so sure about the reliability. When they talk about burning up do they mean the engine or the generator/ welder section?
            Dynasty 200DX, first generation
            Makita 5" grinder
            Makita 14" abrasive saw
            IR SS5L compressor
            Whole bunch of hand/air tools.
            and a wish list a mile long

            Comment


            • #21
              Yes fellas I agree still....It's a load.
              But I belive A.C is being used because some FOLKS DONT KNOW HOW TO COUNTER-ACT. ARC BLOW. Think about it... less frequent and not as violent when using A.C.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by shorerider16 View Post
                I can't comment on engine drive welders or pipelining but I have yet to find a lincoln in any shop that can keep up with a Miller. The old MP-30's in our shop are THE best welding machines I have ever used for Mig; the cv-300s can't compare. As well, the Dialarcs that we have at school will lay a way nicer bead than any red box I have ever tried. Not so sure about the reliability. When they talk about burning up do they mean the engine or the generator/ welder section?
                Wow?
                You must be young?
                Absolute statements show absolute ignorance.

                Think about it, if Lincoln was so rotten then how/why are they still making and SELLING machines.

                In your limited experience with your limited skills you have had better results with Miller, that I would believe.

                TJ
                TJ______________________________________

                Comment


                • #23
                  Quite a few line jobs specify the use of 5P+ for the root / hot only, Lincoln's 6010. So I can see how the whole thing could have started out as the manufacturer's recomendations and has evolved into prejudice. I've used most major brands of welding machines including the red and blue generators and found them all to be pretty good, some have different things that make them better in certain ways, but they all work. My preference is blue soley because I am most familiar with blue over my career, most shops I've worked in ran Miller, new and old. The first welding machines I ever used were the lincoln 225 ac buzz box my dad owns, and the ol' grey engine drives.
                  Jonny

                  Dynasty 300DX
                  Esab PCM 1000

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
                    Wow?
                    Originally posted by Fat-Fab.com View Post
                    You must be young?
                    Absolute statements show absolute ignorance.

                    Think about it, if Lincoln was so rotten then how/why are they still making and SELLING machines.

                    In your limited experience with your limited skills you have had better results with Miller, that I would believe.

                    TJ
                    I am not going to lie and say I have been welding for decades but I have yet to have tried a welder that runs better than the MP-30s, even other millers. This includes both new and old technology, even one of those fancy new Lincoln power wave inverters.

                    Besides, this post asked for opinions didn't it? And by the way, how would you happen to know what level my skills are at anyways? Just curious.




                    On a different note, I have been thinking about the whole engine drive part of the deal and the thought occured to me that about 80% of the rigs around here are Millers. The TB 302 seems to be exeptionally popular, but of course this they probably aren't used for pipelining and it is a little cooler up here in Canada .
                    Dynasty 200DX, first generation
                    Makita 5" grinder
                    Makita 14" abrasive saw
                    IR SS5L compressor
                    Whole bunch of hand/air tools.
                    and a wish list a mile long

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      True pipeline used to be all Lincoln Sa200 & SA250. Miller has made inroads in the last 10 years with Big 40, Pro 300 and Pipe Pro. Pipeline is all downhand, 5/32 6010 root with 3/16&5mm 8010 hot pass, filler and cap. It does not matter what brand machine as long as you make the test and have no repairs. Do not try a air cooled engine unless its a Dutez they will not last. (Dutez is so noisey it will get on your nerves after a while) My son is running a SA250 right now in Wisc. for US Pipline. I finished my time out with a 350D Trailblaser. For many years I ran a Big 20 Miller. So getting kicked out because your machine is AC capable is BS. I now work for building trades with a 302G, very good machine. Would it make it on pipline? No, the engine would have a very short life running 3/16 and 5mm every day 10hrs a day 6 days a week.

                      This is my opinion, just like belly buttons and but holes, everyone has one.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JWOOD View Post
                        Hey all,

                        Just wanted to start a poop storm! The oilfield is going gangbusters in North Texas an there is lots of welding work available right now. The word on the street is that Millers aren't being allowed on most of the jobs. Most of the guys that I've talked w/ are pipeliners and fabbers of oil rigs. They go and test with their Millers and pass and then are told in order to work they have to have a Lincoln. The rumor on the pipeline is that Miller won't meet "the Specs". I have been told that Lincoln wrote the specs and that is why the Blue Stuff won't do. The irritating part is the static that guys catch from otheer welders over the color of their machine. Just wanted to throw it out there and see if yall had any say on the subject. Also if there is a Miller rep that wants to enlighten us on specs and techs, join in!

                        JWOOD
                        Please PM me the information on the jobs your speaking of. I'm currently looking to get into the welding career. I'll weld with anything, Lincoln, Miller, HOBART, etc. As long as in the end I see some green bills.

                        But I am partial to Miller, which is why I'm on here. Durr
                        -STACK

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shorerider16 View Post

                          I am not going to lie and say I have been welding for decades but I have yet to have tried a welder that runs better than the MP-30s, even other millers. This includes both new and old technology, even one of those fancy new Lincoln power wave inverters.[/SIZE]
                          I do not know what a MP-30 is, it must be a fine machine as you speak highly of it, is the machine for all situations I would think not.






                          Originally posted by [SIZE=2
                          Besides, this post asked for opinions didn't it? And by the way, how would you happen to know what level my skills are at anyways? Just curious.[/SIZE]

                          I think the OP was just stating his liking Lincoln over Miller
                          Secondly I was not speaking to your skills I was speaking to your experience, I surmised it by the words you use and the absolute statements you were making . A more experienced fellow would have learned that while he may have a liking for one machine over another he realizes that others can and do preform high quality work with the other machine and have a similar predisposition for that type or brand. So you like the MP-30 good how about telling us why? What makes it better than the MP-99 or the XYZ-123? How are you using it? Is it better suited for just one process or is it multi talented?




                          Originally posted by shorerider16 View Post
                          On a different note, I have been thinking about the whole engine drive part of the deal and the thought occured to me that about 80% of the rigs around here are Millers. The TB 302 seems to be exeptionally popular, but of course this they probably aren't used for pipelining and it is a little cooler up here in Canada .
                          As you go across the country's you will find that each region has a general liking for this brand over that brand this is true for car's tv's soda and welding machines. They all have good and bad points, I feel that having all the same brand can be of an advantage in that accessories are more likely interchangeable.
                          TJ______________________________________

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Finney

                            Thats funny.. .thanks for more explanation, cleared up some more questions I had. We also have several duetz diesels, very loud but have lasted for years.

                            fatfab your right. As you go across the country different equipment is preferred depending on the region. farm equipment, trucks, construction equipment, utillity equipment and even welders all depends on the dealers in the area usually
                            Last edited by HMW; 06-07-2007, 12:54 PM. Reason: spelling, still can't do it
                            Scott
                            HMW [Heavy Metal welding]

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Hi guys,
                              I work for Miller, but want to throw out some of the claims that I have heard for the last 18 years and maybe clear some up. To combine the most common comments that I've heard regarding engine drives: Miller is better for gas powered machines and Lincoln for diesels, Miller is better multiprocess, but Lincoln is better for stick, Miller has better electrics, but Lincoln better engine drives.
                              For the most part, the "long time" welders on cross country pipelines have prodominantly used Lincoln SA's. They typically prefer pre 1969 models and will claim that the arc performance of newer models is not as good. Those are great for 6010 and good for 7018. There is a maintenace factor with the expensive brushes and rack adjustments to tune in the arc as well as needing to turn up amperage throughout the day to keep a constant heat into the weld.
                              The Miller PipePro is excellent and does weld a bit faster and the PRO 300 really should also be looked at. Its a newer product from Miller but has a low speed CAT engine in it as well as the 6010 AND 7018 arc that pipe guys want.
                              Both companies make equipment that is going to do great, most of the time its the Ford/Chevy argument. Take a look at what else the machine offers. If it has a awsome stick arc that you need, along with multiprocess capabilities (yes, some day most welders will end up doing wire or tig) and maybe strong generator power, it may have some extra benefits.
                              As far as going to gas powered or physically smaller machines, those are the standard in most pipe areas accept cross country pipe in the middle/western US. Machines like the Trailblazer and even Bobcat might be physically small, but boast higher outputs and duty cycles than larger heavy diesels like the SA's. For example, a Trailblazer 302 is rated at 300amps at 100% duty cycle, and at 104 degrees. The only thing that limits the output is engine horsepower, not anything else in the machine, so running it wide open all day won't hurt it.
                              I just wanted to toss out some of the things that I have heard over the years and give you a little info. on the Miller machines. I hope it is helpful. Keep up the great comments and conversations.
                              Have a great day!

                              John Leisner
                              Product Manager
                              Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

                              Owner and user of:
                              Trailblazer 302 and Legend 301
                              Smith Dual Guard oxy-fuel system
                              Various borrowed Millermatics and Spectrums.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                John makes a good point here, I've been using this equipment for over thirty years now, a lot of the old stereotypes are no longer valid, just like the ford/chevy arguments. Over the years, I have owned, used all of the following, and still own and use some of these: Hobart (pre-ITW), Miller, Lincoln, Thermal-arc, Pow-con, and probably a few others I don't remember, primary experience has always been engine drives, but also considerable use of transformers and inverters also.

                                My conclusion? Everything was capable of doing what it was designed to do, some things may have been better suited for certain applications, but in no case was I ever unable to do something because the machine wasn't able to do what it was advertised to do, no matter what maker or brand.

                                Most of the time today, the old stereotypes are no longer true, things have changed considerably in the last 20 -30 - 40 years, just like with fords/chevys, the needs have changed, likewise the engineering has changed, there is no similarity today to the products made years ago that the original stereotypes were based on, and it would be a big mistake to base today's purchase decisions on those old beliefs and stereotypes that are no longer valid.
                                Last edited by calweld; 06-07-2007, 04:24 PM.

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