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Lots of spare 10ga stainless - gun safe?

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  • Lots of spare 10ga stainless - gun safe?

    Always throwin' away chunks of 10ga stainless, any ideas on some plans for a gun safe? Thought I saw it mentioned and did a search on several boards but no luck yet. Don't really feel like shellin' out 30-40 bucks for plans, any suggestions?

    Thinkin' about a horizontal safe, double wall with sheetrock insulation, side-swing door on the front, about 2-3ft high, 2ft deep, around 40-48in long with a padlock system similar to a Knackbox. Hey, it'll keep the honest people out...

    thanks,

    'bird

  • #2
    I built some gun safes using 10 ga for the shell, 1/4" for the door and some 2x2 sq tube and some 2x3 rec tube for reinforcement's with a nice American Lock thas has a hidden shakle. I just lost the key to mine and it took 5 hours for me to get into it so i didn't ruin everything inside. Having one built like fort knox would be stupid for me since i have a complete fab shop with all the tools to get in the thing, all they need to do is carry everything to the house. I can get you some drawings and maybe some pics of what i used to make. And i will get a model number of the lock. I even called a locksmith to pick mine and he couldn't do it because i had some extra pieces in the way on purpose so you couldn't pic it, he showed me where to drill the tumblers out so i made some 2' long drill bits drilled the lock and i still couldn't get it open so i had to cut the side and that took some time. email me at aametalmaster@yahoo.com and i will make a drwg...Bob

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    • #3
      Originally posted by tbird View Post
      double wall with sheetrock insulation, side-swing door on the front, about 2-3ft high, 2ft deep, around 40-48in long with a padlock system similar to a Knackbox.
      That's a cool project. I was on the verge of building one myself until I went to work as a fabricator for a safe company last year. After that, I just scrounged a old, 6,000 pound, bank vault, and sort of 'remodeled' it.

      I'd build it as big as ya think you'll ever need though, I've outgrown one safe-- and it was a hassle. I'd also make it verticle, and taller. That'll give you room for a shelf or two above the tops of any rifles standing in it.

      That flat on the ground box with a big wide door-- I think would get rather cumbersome after awhile- especially when you get a little older, and your knees object to bending more and more as time goes on. Not to mention the accessability of stuff in it compared to one being 'verticle' like a refrigerator.

      Sheetrock, preferably the 7/8ths or 1" stuff they use to provide fire protection when building stair wells and kitchen walls behind a stove, would be first choice for your fire liner. It works great, holds anchors for the shelves/racks well, and is easier to work with than pouring the concrete liner like on a reinforced composite safe.

      If you really want to get fancy, I'll post a few pictures of the inside of the doors of some high security safes. The lock/bolt works are fairly simple to fabricate once you see how they're done. The only thing you might have to buy is the combination or electronic lock itself, and maybe a handle for the outside of the door for it to look like a factory made vault.

      ..
      Last edited by Winger Ed.; 10-23-2006, 12:12 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Winger Ed. View Post
        That's a cool project. I was on the verge of building one myself until I went to work as a fabricator for a safe company last year. After that, I just scrounged a old, 6,000 pound, bank vault, and sort of 'remodeled' it.

        I'd build it as big as ya think you'll ever need though, I've outgrown one safe-- and it was a hassle. I'd also make it verticle, and taller. That'll give you room for a shelf or two above the tops of any rifles standing in it.

        That flat on the ground box with a big wide door-- I think would get rather cumbersome after awhile- especially when you get a little older, and your knees object to bending more and more as time goes on. Not to mention the accessability of stuff in it compared to one being 'verticle' like a refrigerator.

        Sheetrock, preferably the 7/8ths or 1" stuff they use to provide fire protection when building stair wells and kitchen walls behind a stove, would be first choice for your fire liner. It works great, holds anchors for the shelves/racks well, and is easier to work with than pouring the concrete liner like on a reinforced composite safe.

        If you really want to get fancy, I'll post a few pictures of the inside of the doors of some high security safes. The lock/bolt works are fairly simple to fabricate once you see how they're done. The only thing you might have to buy is the combination or electronic lock itself, and maybe a handle for the outside of the door for it to look like a factory made vault.

        ..
        Oh, we just HAD to bring THAT up
        (Very good point though)

        Any pics of the bolt system would be a tremendous help. Wasn't gonna attempt them because I googled for awhile and didn't find any pics, not sure what I was doin' wrong so go ahead and post 'em if ya don't mind.

        thanks a heap!

        'bird

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        • #5
          Too funny.....


          I used to see advertisements by the various gun safe companys showing thier's and other companies' lock & boltworks in comparison pictures.


          Here's a couple pictures of a 18th Century Bank Vault. The smudges on the brightwork inside the door are beautiful designs done in a 'engine turning' or burnishing. You may not want to build one quite this fancy though.

          ...

          The 'basic bolts works' picture is what is inside the door of a rather high security (TL-15 rating), modern generation vault a little smaller than a refrigerator, but weighs about 4,000 pounds. Its as stripped down and simple as it can be, but sure works well. You can't see it in the picture, but the walls & door of this vault are about 3" thick. Between the inside part of the lock and its spin dial, there is about 1 1/2 inches of layered steel, some of it similar to what a wrench is made out of.

          The bolt bar slides along pieces of bar stock welded to the inside of the door. The bolts themselves are trapped (but slide easily)in a vertical bar stock or square tubing right where they engage the door frame when its closed. The horizontal bar that pushes the bolts back & forth slides along a piece of square stock and is held against the door & in place by a nut on the end of that little 'flipper' lever on the inside of the outside door handle handle. And its further trapped & supported behind the cover over the lock itself.

          If the inside part of the handle looks sort of fragile-- it is. Its made to where if ya get to banging around or trying to force the bolts, it will break off. And if ya get to beating on the lock, parts in it will easily break or melt too- leaving the lock totally broken, but in the 'closed/locked' position. Then the safe is really locked!! However, a real locksmith, that has the proper tools can usually get one like that open in about 3-4 hours without destroying it.

          The rear/hinge side of the door doesn't have active bolts. It has a real thick piece of angle stock that as the door closes, it covers/swings over & traps a 1" barstock piece welded to the inside of the 'box'. It isn't as pretty or as fancy as active bolts on the hinge side, but just as secure.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Winger Ed.; 10-24-2006, 10:34 PM.

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          • #6
            Man, if I saw the inside of that old safe door in person I'd probably drag me up a chair and just sit there and stare at it til the cows came home. Absolutely spellbinding, can you imagine the factory that puppy was built in? How about delivering it to the new owner? Yikes!
            Then again, bet the door was swung smooth as velvet!

            Gonna sit down and do some more doodlin' and see if I can come up with the materials to do sumthin' like your 3rd pic, wasn't gonna get that deep into it but that's right up my alley and is highly doable. Many thanks for the text ya included, makes understanding the pics a whole lot easier.

            'bird

            Comment


            • #7
              By the way, I'm gonna try to talk the boss out've sumthin' I spotted behind one of the racks. Looks like a door or tabletop, 3'x7' with a 1" folded edge. I figure I could split it down the middle and make the outer shell and front edges from this piece. It would measure 5' tall x 2' wide and be 18" deep and have a 1" face around the front. Lots of long strips around the shop left over from shearing, slap a few in the break and they'll make excellent "angle iron" for forming the frame/inset for the door.

              Hmm, can't wait to mooch that tabletop off of 'em!

              'bird

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tbird View Post
                Man, if I saw the inside of that old safe door in person I'd probably drag me up a chair and just sit there and stare at it til the cows came home. Absolutely spellbinding, can you imagine the factory that puppy was built in? 'bird
                It's a work of art. I walk past it several times a day, and still oggle at it.
                The door swings on hinges, plus it 'floats' on another set of braces/brackets- something.
                To open it, you get yourself right with the combination and time locks, spin the wheel controlling the rack & pinon gears that release the door so it can be sucked straight out---- only then after it clears the door frame, will it swing open to access the interior.

                The two things that look like wheels on the door's inside are 1st generation time locks. Ya wind them up, set them for however many hours later you want the door to be opened,,,,,, and close it up.

                When the clocks wind down, they retract a bolt, and allow the combination lock to work like 'normal'. There is always two or three timelocks,,,, if one fails, any one of the others will allow the lock to work. Its pretty cool how it all works on the real high end safes.

                Something I look at & wonder about is the welding on some of it's pieces. It was built 2 generations before electricity came along. I don't know how old gas welding is,,,,, but I ponder about if some of it was put together with a Thermite welding process.

                And, ya can't see it in the pictures, but when the door is opened, it only exposes 2 other doors-- a top and a bottom, not the inside of a 'box' like you'd think. These inner doors are 2" thick (solid steel), as are thier interior walls, and have their own combination locks, which may or may not be the same as the combination to open the main door.

                We used to have another one very much like it before I hired on. They sent it out to various specialty shops to be totally restored. The restoration was commissioned by a young lady who is one of the heirs to the Ford Motor Company fortune. When it was delivered to her office, to be the centerpiece of it's decor, our company got a check for more than almost any of us would pay for a new truck.

                ..
                Last edited by Winger Ed.; 10-25-2006, 10:15 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tbird View Post
                  Gonna sit down and do some more doodlin' and see if I can come up with the materials to do sumthin' like your 3rd pic, wasn't gonna get that deep into it but that's right up my alley and is highly doable.
                  'bird
                  I'm fixing to go back to our company's other location for a couple weeks. I'm thier 'fixer', and have a counterpart down South. We'll be cleaning up and re-building the last of the vaults in our company's warehouse that got flooded during the Gulf Coast's hurricane last year.

                  We'll start with the most valuable, and work our way back to the cheaper ones. What we can't fix and get in a 'sellable' condition in that time, will go to the scrap yard.

                  If you're not in a big hurry, I'll try to grap a bolt bar, basic boltwork, & a handle that you might could use on your project & send them to ya by the end of Nov.
                  I'll be offline until I get back, so don't think I forgot about ya.....

                  Ed.

                  ..
                  Last edited by Winger Ed.; 10-25-2006, 11:00 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tbird View Post
                    wasn't gonna get that deep into it but that's right up my alley and is highly doable.'bird
                    Since we're so early in the game-------

                    Since you've got access to 10 guage sheet instead of 1" plate-
                    Here's something to contemplate.. A 'composite body'.

                    A 2-4 inch thick modern generation high security safe may have the inside 'box' made from 1" plate. What's the other few inches made of? It's got a outter 'shell' usually made from 10 guage, and the gap in between is filled with reinforced concrete*.

                    *
                    This concrete is full of wire made from tool steel, and various degrees of mesh and ribbon stock, re-bar rods, all sorts of stuff that eats saw blades & drill bits. Plus it also serves as the fire liner/protection
                    *

                    Since you'll be using 10 guage, you could made 2 'boxes'. One inside the other, with a 2-3" gap. Start saving old nuts, bolts, grinder filings, burnt drill bits, ball bearings, bent saws-all blades,,, all manner of scrap to use for the concrete's filler besides rocks to fill the gap with.

                    For a little bit of effort, you could build yourself a vault that would be essentially fireproof, weigh over a ton, and of a security level that'd cost a few thousand dollars to just pick up the phone and order one like it.


                    .
                    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 10-25-2006, 10:55 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I've got access locally to all kinds of trinkets that could be used as bolt-bars etc such as stainless roundbar and other things. As far as an inner box goes, it's in the plan and was gonna use sheetrock between the two. Can't go the weight route because of the final location, doubt the floor would hold it, house is on peirs and thinkin' about puttin' it upstairs too.

                      What's that lil square halfway up the vertical piece that holds the boltbars in alignment? Is it a retainer to keep everything semi tight?

                      'bird

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tbird View Post
                        What's that lil square halfway up the vertical piece that holds the boltbars in alignment? Is it a retainer to keep everything semi tight?

                        'bird
                        The little square is just a tab welded onto the door's frame that is tapped to hold a 8-32 x 3/8ths screw that helps hold on the inside door cover panel. There is one every 2 feet or so to hold the pannel on.

                        The big block/square to the rear of the lock cover (which is totally unnecessary, and most vaults don't have a cover over the lock once the inside sheet metal pannel is removed) is just the stop for the bolts. The big block (6" piece of 3" channel stock) keeps the bolts & the bar holding them from going back too far and falling out of thier guide holes.

                        Being hollow, or a tube, it sounds really cool when the bolt bar goes back and slams into it. You'd think there was 1,000 pounds of steel moving/slamming around in there...... LOL

                        Behind the lock's cover,, that long horiz. bar you see continues on under the cover until it hits the big square there at the back end near the hinge side of the door. The lock box is mounted so that the tab or lock's locking bolt drops up & down into- or out of a notch cut in it. When the lock's tab is retracted, the bolt bar is released, or 'un-jammed' I guess you'd say, and the outside handle can move the bolt bar back & forth.


                        Also under the lock's cover plate is a 're-locker' device. If the lock gets 'punched' out, or beat on enough through the spindle hole to fracture it's back cover, or disturb its mounting screws,,,a spring loaded steel pin is released into another notch in the bolt bar. Then, the safe is really!! locked.

                        If the relocker fires.......... to open it you'll need to bring some sandwhiches and a drink along with plenty of power tools--- you're gonna be there awhile..
                        Last edited by Winger Ed.; 10-26-2006, 10:11 PM.

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                        • #13
                          I think you will have your work cut out for you to find a desghin that works for you.

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