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Why Won’t These Weld Together?

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  • Why Won’t These Weld Together?

    Hello,

    First of all, I am a novice welder, so please bear with me.

    I’m having a problem welding two items together. I’m trying to make a tooth bar for my tractor’s bucket. I bought 7 bucket “shanks” off of eBay to weld to two steel bars which will then be bolted on and off of the lip of the bucket as needed. I decided to try stick welding because the fit up between the shanks and the bar is not the greatest. I figured trying to TIG weld it would be too time consuming (and I’m not so good yet), and my MIG welder is a small light duty unit and I didn’t think it was up to the task. The shanks are to be welded to two cold rolled steel bars 1˝”wide x Ľ” thick x 36” long, tacked together long edge to long edge, to make it 3” wide x Ľ” thick x 36” long. All areas to be welded were prepped/cleaned and then wiped down with acetone.

    At first I thought the shanks were cast iron, but looking closely at one I noticed it had the words “Forged Steel” on it. Being unsure what the shanks were really made of, I tried several welding options as listed below. Everything I tried just blew away the metal on the shanks. None of the metal from the electrodes stuck to the shanks either.

    I have gone back and looked closer at the shanks, it does appear as if they were cast because there is a definite raised seam 3/8” wide around the entire middle of each shank. You can see in the pictures (listed below) that the shanks are fairly large. From the point of the shank to the rear of the top portion it is about 81/2” long, to the bottom portion about 5” long, and the shank is 11/2” wide. The differences between the pictured shanks and mine are that mine are not painted, and mine have the seam on them.

    http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n215/hamholfarm/

    Below are the various electrodes and the DCEP amp settings which I tried to use:

    Assuming the shank was forged steel I tried:
    5/32” 7014 at 190, 150, and 50 amps = the electrode immediately melted away the metal of the shank, no metal from the electrode would accumulate and stick to the shank

    Assuming the shank was cast iron I tried:
    3/32” ENiFeCl at 70, 50, and 35 amps = once again the electrode melted away the metal of the shank, and no metal from the electrode would stick to the shank

    I also have 5/32” 6011 electrodes that I didn’t even bother trying.

    So: what am I doing wrong, and/or what electrode should I try and at what approximate Amp level?

    I apologize for the extremely long post; I’m just trying to be very thorough with the descriptions and what I did so you understand better. I thank you all in advance for your assistance.

    Chip

  • #2
    I've welded on tons of these things and one thing i have noticed is the quality of the castings. We use ER70s in the migs and 7018 in the field. some seem to be very bad castings and are difficult to weld. Most I weld are from ditch witch, john deere or CAT. They seem to do good. for 7018 the machine is set at DCEP. we usually use 1/8" rods. I think around 120-140 amps Small for the thickness but these shanks will probably have to be cut off again anyway someday and dont need a huge bead. I never have used 7014 so have no experience. All we stock is 6011/6013/7018. Mostly use 7018. 6011 on real nasty stuff [rusty]..good luck

    Comment


    • #3
      I too would try a 7018 but I do remember about 20+ years ago I was trying to weld a cast steel diff housing off a tractor and had a similar problem, I was using a 6013 and switched over to a 7024 and got it to weld decent ? I wouldnt say to try a 7024 in this case but it was a thought, things do not always work like the text book says they should. Being so rusty on my stick skills, if it were me I would probably try a 6013 first and see. The few times I pull out a stick welder it is usually always a 6013 rod I use unless I am doing some super nasty rusty stuff, the its a 6011 all the way.
      You know I always talk to my local Prax air people when I get stumped or need to get an update, when I first started to tig 4130 chrome molly I talked to them and they had a bunch of info (a flyer) that talked about it and the best way to work with it, maybe there is a better rod or way to do it ? I doubt this is of any help, but what about preheat on your part ? maybe bring both pieces up a few hundred degrees and see if there is any improvement ?
      Just my thoughts, I am sure there are people on this forum that could offer better advice on stick welding it.
      Last thought- maybe try to lay a bead with the tig and some 70S- filler and see what that does ?

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you for the replies.

        HMW - I tried exactly as you suggested and it worked well enough, 7018 at 120 Amps - thank you for your help.

        Dan - I also appreciate your suggestions - I would have tried the pre-heat had the 7018 not worked at ambient temperature. As an afterthought, and seeing the results of welding with the 7018, I think it would have made it easier had I done the pre-heat. But the 7018 worked well enough and I did not have to drag out the torch set!

        Thank you both again!

        Chip

        Comment


        • #5
          try using utp 65, it's not cheap stuff but that might work.

          Comment

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