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I need to make a 20' I beam 40'

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Markswelding View Post
    I'll try posting here but for the wise please keep your stupid comments to yourself.

    1) need at least 80' good string
    2) a good surface
    3) at minimum a set of "strong backs" to keep it straight while welding
    4) a good welder, as in machine as well as a weldor
    5) air arc for back gouge, or at least a nicely made prep joint, bevel 30deg. On flanges (4)
    6) I would use 3 plates to "fish plate it", top 2 sides of web.
    7) after fish plating, if you really want safety you could bolt, 5/8 - 3/4 structural bolts in a few figured in places would be a security measure.

    Good luck in your endeavors, be work safe, but frankly & I forget size of beam but I can look for specs in Bethlehem steel book at home.
    For a 1000lbs I think it sounds like overkill as to beam size, hopefully not rusted.
    Check the deflection in 1 beam proped up on bothe ends check sag, you can do this on ground before trying to get into the air.
    Hope this helps, if you were close I'd offer a weld job for you if yours is questionable. But don't settle for a back yard weld.
    As for when things fall there's no stopping that kind of weight.
    Remember to if you should "jerk it" a 1000 lb load could easily double in weight.

    Have a great safe project
    Thanks my friend, it sounds like I am on the right track. Let me ask you one thing for clarity, when you said use three fish plates, one on top and bottom and one on the web; would you solid weld all the edges? I had planed on sandwiching the web with 2, 1/2" pieces of plate 24" long and 6" wide one on each side. I have already drilled the plates for 5/8 " bolts and I planed on putting two lines of bolts of 4 each in a staggered pattern on each side of the weld or 16 bolts per joint.

    I had also thought of making two splices in the beam one at 10 ft on each end. My thinking was that this would place the welded points in places of less stress. Do you feel I need to go this route if I plate the beam as I described? I welded two pieces of beam together today that I plan on using as a brace for another project and I had almost 3/4 of a day by the time I was done. This was a practice run to see how straight I could make it and it turned out pretty nice if I say so myself.

    I don't have an air arc setup so I had to grind the joints and I don't know about the 30 degree thing I'm not as steady as I used to be but it didn't turn out bad. Also what rod would you think is best suited to get the best all around results. I'm not a welder by trade but I have welded plenty over my life time and where as sometimes it ain't pretty like I have seen others do I haven't had a weld break yet. I have a 295 Amp buzz box I do most of my stick welding with but I could use the Dynasty 350 if I had to it's just that it would be a pain to get it out to where I have to weld this long section. I could also mig weld it but it would be harder to get that machine out there than it would be the blue one. Thank you
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    • #32
      Well today I had a helper and I dragged the beams up to the garage where I could start work on them. I decided to go with the two splice deal that I had originally thought about and everything went well after we figured out how to lay them out where we could work on them. We got both joints almost finished before it got too dark outside and all that is left is to do a little finish work. I still need to weld my top and bottom fish plate and I still need to drill my holes in the web to match the holes in the 4, 1/2" plates I plan on using where the web is welded. Another day and I can drag the whole mess down the the building pad where it will hopefully live one day. If all goes well I'm hoping to get my post and headers in this week and maybe even get the beam hoisted up and bolted in place.

      I have a lot of cutting, welding and grinding to go yet but once it's up I'll take a pic of this beast and try to post it to the board. That is if it don't break in half like some people seem to think it will.LOL
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      • #33
        All i can do is laugh.If you need to ask what rod to use to do this you need to hire a professional.No disrespect but come on????
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        • #34
          Originally posted by admweld View Post
          All i can do is laugh.If you need to ask what rod to use to do this you need to hire a professional.No disrespect but come on????
          Well while you are laughing and not disrespecting an all...... Maybe you would like to at the very least while all this is going on, throw out an opinion as to what a big professional like yourself would use to weld the beams together.
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          • #35
            It wouldn't matter what a "professional" recommends. You're going to use whatever you already decided to use.

            Not only do you seem to be one of those guys who subscribe to the "don't confuse me with facts, my mind's made up", but you also seem to have difficulty with "reading comprehension".

            Not only do you totally reject advice from guys who know the business, but then along comes a poster "who gives you advice you wanted to hear". Never mind that it was the worst advice tendered to date, it was sorta what you wanted to hear. You thought it was great, except that you "read into" his post what you had already decided, rather than what he'd posted.

            That poster stated, "I would use 3 plates to "fish plate it", top 2 sides of web." In other words, he would leave the bottom flange unreinforced. Yeah, that's great advice, especially since the bottom flange will be carrying the tension load in this beam.

            This entire post has been an exercise in "how not to" approach a project. Here's a couple examples:

            First we never learned (nor did you) exactly what beam we're dealing with. Just that it's a W10. Could be a 19, could be a 21, whatever. Little things like that are important.

            Since we never knew what beam is being used, no one could say with any certainty what load carrying capacity it would have, even without a splice/splices.

            When bolt splicing an I beam, the bolt pattern is "designed" to distribute the load, not where the bolt holes "look good". Same thing with fish plates. Size, shape, and how they're welded are critical to achieving maximum strength.

            When hanging a structural steel beam, you don't "think" it's good enough and I'll add additional support "if needed". You know what you're dealing with going in.

            Most "welders" know that 7018 is a DC rod. But, I guess that's one of the points that shipyard welder forgot to tell you when he was asleep and you were burning away.

            Small point, but it shows the "attention to detail" that we're dealing with here. Miller did not make a Dynasty 350 5 or 6 years ago as you state. I suspect the machine you have is a Dynasty 300. Not that it matters, but I've found that people that are sloppy (non detail oriented) in one area, that the same traits tend to carry over into other areas as well.

            Whatever rod you decide to use, you may want to consider dipping them in ****** before welding. I think that beam is going to need all the "stiffneing" it can get.
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            • #36
              Dang "word police"

              Substitute in V I A G R A .
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              • #37
                Originally posted by SundownIII View Post
                Dang "word police"

                Substitute in V I A G R A .
                All I have heard out of you is a bunch of petty jabs and a snarl or two here and there. You remind me of an old over the hill woman that just isn't happy about anything and is always looking for something to bit*h and gripe about. Rather that waste your time here why don't you either post something of substance or just go in the back room and take a toke off the bong or another hit out of the metamucil jug. If you know all this stuff post it up and help out.....if not, please kindly just go your own way and leave me the heck alone.
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                4'X9' 4000lb lift table with 11/4" thick Aluminum table top
                Enerpac STB Hydraulic over air tubing and pipe bender
                4X6 band saw
                chop saw
                Dewalt porta band saw
                71/2' X 71/2' powder coat oven
                4'x4' powder coat oven
                grinders, grinders, and more grinders

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by mx842 View Post
                  All I have heard out of you is a bunch of petty jabs and a snarl or two here and there. You remind me of an old over the hill woman that just isn't happy about anything and is always looking for something to bit*h and gripe about. Rather that waste your time here why don't you either post something of substance or just go in the back room and take a toke off the bong or another hit out of the metamucil jug. If you know all this stuff post it up and help out.....if not, please kindly just go your own way and leave me the heck alone.
                  Wish I had SundownIII within 75-85 miles. I can't say what many would do, but I'd be leery about posting any advice to anyone that doesn't want to spend the time to do the job right. If you don't want to be bothered by members of the board carping on your inability to understand what is involved, put them on 'ignore' and their comments and criticism will disappear. Do it at your own risk.
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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mx842 View Post
                    Well while you are laughing and not disrespecting an all...... Maybe you would like to at the very least while all this is going on, throw out an opinion as to what a big professional like yourself would use to weld the beams together.
                    7018 1/8.Also being the professional i am i would not even take a job like this with out a structural engineers stamp on a set of drawings with a WPS included.I can,t tell you how many times i have had to explain this to customers.That i am a welder,not a engineer and have no business in sizing steel for a job.But then again i have liabilty insurance and alot to lose so i must be an idiot.
                    Last edited by admweld; 03-14-2011, 07:29 PM.
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                    • #40
                      I'm just doubly bubbled dumb founded

                      Sundowner; I tried to send a message, your box is full empty it?

                      MX842, yes as in what others have said, I as well said, but maybe not clearly enough. (and as well the bottom flange should be plated).
                      You probably should have some "professional type" help for your job.
                      I myself know what I can get away with but then I've been a welder for 30 yrs, fit & fixed lots of stuff, so I have a pretty fairly good idea of what I can get away with.
                      If you do this you can't just shmuck it together, for those of us that weld a lot it would be easy, but your questions do leave me with worry.
                      What size are the flanges?
                      Good luck but don't hold me to any responsibility get qualified help.

                      Mark

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                      • #41
                        I,ll also add the same as mark stated, being a welder 22yrs now i also have a pretty good idea of what i can get away with also.But a beam splice in building or a barn is something i would not take lightly to just wing it.
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                        HT/PWR-MAX1250 PLASMA

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Markswelding View Post
                          Sundowner; I tried to send a message, your box is full empty it?

                          MX842, yes as in what others have said, I as well said, but maybe not clearly enough. (and as well the bottom flange should be plated).
                          You probably should have some "professional type" help for your job.
                          I myself know what I can get away with but then I've been a welder for 30 yrs, fit & fixed lots of stuff, so I have a pretty fairly good idea of what I can get away with.
                          If you do this you can't just shmuck it together, for those of us that weld a lot it would be easy, but your questions do leave me with worry.
                          What size are the flanges?
                          Good luck but don't hold me to any responsibility get qualified help.

                          Mark
                          No, Mark, I read what you posted, you told mx exactly what he wanted to hear. you are as much of an idiot as MX is, don't weasel out of it.
                          Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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                          • #43
                            I don't weasel out of **** no need to

                            Originally posted by JSFAB View Post
                            No, Mark, I read what you posted, you told mx exactly what he wanted to hear. you are as much of an idiot as MX is, don't weasel out of it.
                            Originally posted by JSFAB View Post
                            No, Mark, I read what you posted, you told mx exactly what he wanted to hear. you are as much of an idiot as MX is, don't weasel out of it.
                            Yeh your right I told him what he wanted to hear none of you people on here told him how it should be done. So answer me **** brain just how should it be done, how many X-ray bend tests you get thru?
                            Hey you said it best aw
                            Your just a hack artist and we shouldn't listen to you.
                            Moron unless you know who I am and my work capabilities you should stuff an octagon bar in your a$$ so you smile more.
                            People like you suck and drag down the rest of decent people trying to learn something or get a project done.
                            Keep your crap to yourself make me waist my time arguing or trying to communicate with a fart.
                            **** I should of never got involved you Internet people suck the wazzoooo
                            At least I find it better to offer someone some advice or help compared to your ridicule jerk off.
                            S. B. For president

                            Oh after checking the pf, you spend the majority of your time here looking for people to degrade don't you. Better then 2 posts per day.
                            Get a job get a life. And you wanna make comments about Internet welders WTF

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Markswelding View Post
                              Yeh your right I told him what he wanted to hear none of you people on here told him how it should be done. So answer me **** brain just how should it be done, how many X-ray bend tests you get thru?
                              Hey you said it best aw
                              Your just a hack artist and we shouldn't listen to you.
                              Moron unless you know who I am and my work capabilities you should stuff an octagon bar in your a$$ so you smile more.
                              People like you suck and drag down the rest of decent people trying to learn something or get a project done.
                              Keep your crap to yourself make me waist my time arguing or trying to communicate with a fart.
                              **** I should of never got involved you Internet people suck the wazzoooo
                              At least I find it better to offer someone some advice or help compared to your ridicule jerk off.
                              S. B. For president

                              Oh after checking the pf, you spend the majority of your time here looking for people to degrade don't you. Better then 2 posts per day.
                              Get a job get a life. And you wanna make comments about Internet welders WTF
                              Ok...calm down now, it isn't worth the heightened blood pressure trying to inject reason into a college boy. Where I never would belittle anyone for taking the time to go to school and getting all the education they can there are some things you will never learn in a school building. Obviously, from some of the post in this thread it is easier to poke fun at someone's ideas or plans than it is to actually offer up a solution to the problem. I don't even mind them wanting to get paid for their advice.Although, If I was this highly educated and my time was that valuable I don't think I would be spending my time on some welding forum trying to drum up business.
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                              Enerpac STB Hydraulic over air tubing and pipe bender
                              4X6 band saw
                              chop saw
                              Dewalt porta band saw
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                              4'x4' powder coat oven
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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Markswelding View Post
                                Sundowner; I tried to send a message, your box is full empty it?

                                MX842, yes as in what others have said, I as well said, but maybe not clearly enough. (and as well the bottom flange should be plated).
                                You probably should have some "professional type" help for your job.
                                I myself know what I can get away with but then I've been a welder for 30 yrs, fit & fixed lots of stuff, so I have a pretty fairly good idea of what I can get away with.
                                If you do this you can't just shmuck it together, for those of us that weld a lot it would be easy, but your questions do leave me with worry.
                                What size are the flanges?
                                Good luck but don't hold me to any responsibility get qualified help.

                                Mark
                                Don't worry Mark I'm not looking to sue anyone. I'm just a poor country boy looking for help in all the wrong places it seems. I have no doubt that I can make this beam work if I go about it the right way. It is purely a matter a matter of economics for me. I have 3 or 4 thousand dollars worth of steel the Good Lord blessed me with and I can't see throwing it all away and buying more just to satisfy some internet engineer cowboy's lust for attention and notification of their self worth.

                                I'm sorry you got involved with this in this way where your knowledge and experience have been called into question. It is from people such as yourself that I was looking for answers. People that have actually been out in the field and fixed stuff and made stuff work. People that have actually put beams together and figured out how or seen it done before. Sure I have ideas about how this should be done and would have already done it if I had not gotten caught up with all the nit picking and pettiness from post in this thread.

                                Right now I am hung up on fish plate shape and bolt pattern and how they relate to load. As I said I have already welded the beams together in two places and won't worry a bit about my ability to make these welds. That part is done and it is all on me but the next part is plating the splices and if anyone has any thoughts on this I would be glad to listen to what you have to say about how this is done properly.

                                Thanks, and as I said I'm sorry you have had to bear some of the pettiness of some of the posters that have tried to lay claim to my thread. If you choose not to post anymore I will certainly understand and thanks for your help.
                                Dynasty 300 DX
                                Tig Runner cart with Coolmate 3
                                Millermatic 252
                                Spoolmatic 30A
                                Lincoln Idealarc 250
                                Nedeman moble fume extraction system
                                Digital Elite
                                Aircrafter welding positioner
                                Bridgeport Mill
                                Mini lathe
                                4'X9' 4000lb lift table with 11/4" thick Aluminum table top
                                Enerpac STB Hydraulic over air tubing and pipe bender
                                4X6 band saw
                                chop saw
                                Dewalt porta band saw
                                71/2' X 71/2' powder coat oven
                                4'x4' powder coat oven
                                grinders, grinders, and more grinders

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