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I need to make a 20' I beam 40'

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  • #16
    Originally posted by FernTJ View Post
    Iím not endorsing your project in any way, but for what itís worthÖ

    For a steel beam with actual dimensions of 9.88 x 3.98 x .189 web I calculate the stress at 10 feet from the end support to be 8000 psi with 1000 pounds at that location resulting in .8 inches deflection. With 1000 pounds in the center the stress is 11000 psi with 1.4 inches deflection.

    The yield stress for A36 steel is 36000 psi.

    As stated earlier moving loads will create higher stresses than static loads, how high depends on how they move. Having a chain slip, load falls, and then stops sharp will cause a much higher.
    Yes...and by the way that deflection is usually permanent.
    I know from experience.

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    • #17
      "Thanks I needed that but you owe me a keyboard" LOL...lol.....lol (Quote from MX842)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by FernTJ View Post
        I’m not endorsing your project in any way, but for what it’s worth…

        For a steel beam with actual dimensions of 9.88 x 3.98 x .189 web I calculate the stress at 10 feet from the end support to be 8000 psi with 1000 pounds at that location resulting in .8 inches deflection. With 1000 pounds in the center the stress is 11000 psi with 1.4 inches deflection.

        The yield stress for A36 steel is 36000 psi.

        As stated earlier moving loads will create higher stresses than static loads, how high depends on how they move. Having a chain slip, load falls, and then stops sharp will cause a much higher.
        Thank you very much this is what I was hoping someone would post for me. I have tried to figure out my beam specs but can't seem to get it right. I found that site that does the math but that site won't let me back on I think they want money before I can get the info I wanted and everyone else seems to get caught up on some detail I said and it goes downhill from there. Like I said I'm not the best question asker when it comes to stuff like this. It must be the ADD I have had all my life that gets in the way.LOL

        Your beam specs sound like a W10X12 beam which is lighter than the one I am using. If I might trouble you and you have access could you please run the numbers for a W10X19 for me? Actually I'm not 100% sure the real value of the beam is because yesterday I weighted a 4' section and it weighted just shy of 85lbs so that means it's at least a W10X19 or more but I don't have anything showing a beam with measurements that match my beam size and weight. So going by the weight Of my beam material I should be safe going with the W10X19 numbers and have some built in overload protection.

        I want to know this because I would like to find out what is going to happen at 20' mid span with 500Lbs and then at 1000lbs with just support at both ends. Please forget about all the what if's and maybe's for now. I plan on dealing with those with additional bracing and support. I just want to know what the beam is going to do at these points so I can figure out how much and where to place the bridging I am going to do on the top of the beam to support the load. I need to do this so I can order my roof truss and I need to know what style truss system to put in so I will have enough room above to run my steel bracing for the beam.

        PS: I don't like lawyers either so this is not a trap I'm trying to snare you in so I can sue you and I realize anything I put up I am responsible for and if it falls down in a pile of rubble one day the board engineers can reserve all rights to say, I TOLD YOU SO.....
        Last edited by mx842; 03-10-2011, 09:18 AM. Reason: Adding point
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        • #19
          A simple beam calculation for a W10x19 beam, 40 foot length, supported at each end with 1000 pound load at center comes out to 6400 psi stress with a .83 inch deflection. Half the load results in half the stress and deflection in this type of simple analysis (3200 psi, .41 inch deflection).

          I would suggest in asking pointed questions, like "what is the theoretical deflection for such and such" rather then open ended questions like "I'm planning on ..., will it work". People are hesitant to give opinions on stuff like that because there is a lot at stake if this thing comes down. And there are a bunch of reason it could even if the material has inherent strength in theory.

          Beam deflection and stress are useful calculations but they can't take the place of a detailed engineering analysis. I think you know this already. So, you are on your own. Good Luck.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by FernTJ View Post
            A simple beam calculation for a W10x19 beam, 40 foot length, supported at each end with 1000 pound load at center comes out to 6400 psi stress with a .83 inch deflection. Half the load results in half the stress and deflection in this type of simple analysis (3200 psi, .41 inch deflection).

            I would suggest in asking pointed questions, like "what is the theoretical deflection for such and such" rather then open ended questions like "I'm planning on ..., will it work". People are hesitant to give opinions on stuff like that because there is a lot at stake if this thing comes down. And there are a bunch of reason it could even if the material has inherent strength in theory.

            Beam deflection and stress are useful calculations but they can't take the place of a detailed engineering analysis. I think you know this already. So, you are on your own. Good Luck.
            Thank you, and you are right about how you ask a question and getting results. I tried several different ways at other sites but when I did ask that pointed question on one site and my only response was.....well, go out and spend you $150,000.00 on a college education and you might be able to figure this out all by yourself. I guess he is right though but at 65 years old and broke as I have become over the last several years with this economy I don't think a college degree in in my future.LOL

            Once I'm done I'll post up some pics of the completed project if I can figure out how to do it on this site.
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            • #21
              If you would go to collage and get a degree in computers & photography you would know how to do that too.
              J/K, j/k I couldn't resist saying that.......

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              • #22
                To the op: the connection is not the problem, the problem is spanning a 40' distance with a beam barely able to support it's own weight, let alone an additional 300# or 500# additional weight, seems you haven't decided yet??

                In talking about "decided",,,,, I'm talking about the actual design weight you are "engineering" for, I doubt you have any idea of what things actually weigh, that you are lifting with this thing. Unless you actually have a scale, and stamped weight limits posted all along the beam, this should be a red flag to any engineer reading and posting to this thread.
                Last edited by JSFAB; 03-10-2011, 01:24 PM.
                Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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                • #23
                  I fail to see any purpose to this thread whatsoever,,,, you are not looking for advice, you (the op) have already decided what you are going to do,,,,, you are just looking for somebody qualified to "rubber stamp" your flawed engineering and test methods .... thus, you fight anybody who actually has valid inputs, and disagree with your methods.
                  Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JSFAB View Post
                    I fail to see any purpose to this thread whatsoever,,,, you are not looking for advice, you (the op) have already decided what you are going to do,,,,, you are just looking for somebody qualified to "rubber stamp" your flawed engineering and test methods .... thus, you fight anybody who actually has valid inputs, and disagree with your methods.
                    One thought...

                    Kraythe VS 2.0 (remember the sister channel to tubing thread?) He was a real genius.

                    Yup, nothing like ignoring good advice & common sense.

                    Glad he's not putting it in MY barn...............
                    So you're telling me...You're not nostalgic? Then, give me another word for it......

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                    • #25
                      Anyone ever seen engineering disasters?? I once listened to an engineer and a GC argue that a 2000sqft concrete slab outside didn't need to be sloped to drain away from the building because if it was flat it couldn't hold water.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JSFAB View Post
                        I fail to see any purpose to this thread whatsoever,,,, you are not looking for advice, you (the op) have already decided what you are going to do,,,,, you are just looking for somebody qualified to "rubber stamp" your flawed engineering and test methods .... thus, you fight anybody who actually has valid inputs, and disagree with your methods.
                        Come on now......sounds like you are the one looking to fight someone. I didn't post this to start a fight or stir anyone up and you can always just ignore the thread and get back to what you normally do.

                        To begin with I didn't post on a welding site looking for anything from an engineer. My original question was to the board welders on how they would go about welding the beam together to make it 40'. Please look at the thread title and if you have some useful information please by all means reply other than that if you are just looking to start a pizzin match start a new thread of your own. Please don't be defensive about that statement it's just that I have already wasted too much time with off topic discussions about everything but what the original thread was about.

                        And you are right, I have already made my mind up what I am going to do I just asked a simple question on a welding forum about a welding procedure that I wanted help with. I didn't mean it to get blown all out of proportion or ask for a engineer stamp rubber or otherwise.

                        FernTJ did answer another question that I had been looking for after the thread went off the cliff and I do thank him for that. I am prepared to add what ever bracing and support necessary to hold up the piddly 4 or 5 hundred pounds that I might one day ask this thing to do. Even if it means shortening the span a little or adding some additional support in the middle somehow. I can do that easy enough with temp removable support poles that I can place in the center section or along the way if needed.

                        There are thousands of ways to do a simple job and be safe at the same time all you have to do is use your head. This is not a union job or a commercial building project I am working on here. It is a backyard shade tree mechanic project where the mechanic is tired of working under the shade tree with the 2 4x4 post sticking out of the ground with a piece of 2" pipe wired to the top of the post that has been used to lift all sorts of dreadful stuff for years.

                        If you have any useful information......pictures would be helpful about how to connect these two 20' sections of beam either by welding, bolting together or both please by all means help out an old country boy otherwise please use the ignore button.
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                        4'X9' 4000lb lift table with 11/4" thick Aluminum table top
                        Enerpac STB Hydraulic over air tubing and pipe bender
                        4X6 band saw
                        chop saw
                        Dewalt porta band saw
                        71/2' X 71/2' powder coat oven
                        4'x4' powder coat oven
                        grinders, grinders, and more grinders

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 7A749 View Post
                          One thought...

                          Kraythe VS 2.0 (remember the sister channel to tubing thread?) He was a real genius.

                          Yup, nothing like ignoring good advice & common sense.

                          Glad he's not putting it in MY barn...............
                          Well then maybe you would like to chime in on what the original post was about. Three pages and nothing but a circle jerk of motion and not one response as to how one would go about putting the two beams together.
                          Dynasty 300 DX
                          Tig Runner cart with Coolmate 3
                          Millermatic 252
                          Spoolmatic 30A
                          Lincoln Idealarc 250
                          Nedeman moble fume extraction system
                          Digital Elite
                          Aircrafter welding positioner
                          Bridgeport Mill
                          Mini lathe
                          4'X9' 4000lb lift table with 11/4" thick Aluminum table top
                          Enerpac STB Hydraulic over air tubing and pipe bender
                          4X6 band saw
                          chop saw
                          Dewalt porta band saw
                          71/2' X 71/2' powder coat oven
                          4'x4' powder coat oven
                          grinders, grinders, and more grinders

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                          • #28
                            mx,

                            Whether you wish to accept it or not, possibly the "best advice" you've received in this thread is the fact that no one has come forward and said "this is the way you should do it".

                            Given time, I'm sure one of our "experts" (you know the ones with their 120v mig welders) will chime in on how "they would do it". You can then take their advice and run with it.
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                            • #29
                              40' outta 2 20'

                              I'll try posting here but for the wise please keep your stupid comments to yourself.

                              1) need at least 80' good string
                              2) a good surface
                              3) at minimum a set of "strong backs" to keep it straight while welding
                              4) a good welder, as in machine as well as a weldor
                              5) air arc for back gouge, or at least a nicely made prep joint, bevel 30deg. On flanges (4)
                              6) I would use 3 plates to "fish plate it", top 2 sides of web.
                              7) after fish plating, if you really want safety you could bolt, 5/8 - 3/4 structural bolts in a few figured in places would be a security measure.

                              Good luck in your endeavors, be work safe, but frankly & I forget size of beam but I can look for specs in Bethlehem steel book at home.
                              For a 1000lbs I think it sounds like overkill as to beam size, hopefully not rusted.
                              Check the deflection in 1 beam proped up on bothe ends check sag, you can do this on ground before trying to get into the air.
                              Hope this helps, if you were close I'd offer a weld job for you if yours is questionable. But don't settle for a back yard weld.
                              As for when things fall there's no stopping that kind of weight.
                              Remember to if you should "jerk it" a 1000 lb load could easily double in weight.

                              Have a great safe project

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                              • #30
                                See.

                                I told you so.

                                It's BS posts like this that get people hurt/killed.
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                                Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                                PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                                Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                                Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                                More grinders than hands

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