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More 7018 vert

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  • More 7018 vert

    While I thought I had it from the last post I discovered something interesting when my bead went south. I was welding 4"X4"X1/4" sq. tube and as you know they are very round at the corners. I mitred the corners but with a torch so the fit was not perfect. I lost the weld bead about half way up but noticed it was due to not being able to keep the arc short. Oh, I was ising 1/8"@112amps. As long as I could keep a short arc things are good but with the rounded edges and slight gap I would lose the puddle. I tried to push it right in but could not get the arc to close. Any pointers??? Another thing I noticed while doing a piece of 1" plate flat position at 125amps the flux would start to run ahead of my travel??? Is there anyway to control this? I was not manipulating the eledctrode but just doing a slow drag and letting it burn in. Most of the time I end up with a nice bead but when the flux starts to run ahead it does a lot of spitting, still end up with a nice weld but it is very annoying and I have to slow down even more to boil the flux out. Anyone have same trouble and know how to fix???

  • #2
    Try using a general purpose rod.If you are welding in position 112 amps is barely enough for that size electrode.
    If you favour that type of electrode try dropping down one size,you will find you can run the electrode at a higher amperage therefore the electrode will be less likely to stall and less susceptable to slag inclusions.
    Ensure machine is set on DC current and the leads are not coiled up on the ground.How long have you had the box of electrodes open for ? If they have been open for a while they may have been exposed to moisture.
    Always ensure the weld joint is free of impurities such as oil,paint,rust and slag from using the gas.
    Last edited by R W; 12-25-2007, 03:25 AM.

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    • #3
      Before I call you guys nuts for saying that 112amps with 1/8" 7018 vert is to cold I will try it. I will say that I feel the puddle will drop but that is why we post here. I will trust and I guess I'll try it at 118? For some reason 7018 is the only rod we run out of our local, or the company I'm working for. I will master this position if it takes me a life time. While welding flat at 115 the weld bead had an almost alloy appearance and the flux would peal off almost by itself which is what I thought is what you want. I also did some flat at 125 and the flux was almost impossible to chip off, so I thought that was to hot?

      Comment


      • #4
        Shane,

        This has been covered on here several times, and on many of the other sites I have seen you on....maybe we can give you a response here that will make sense to you and work for you.

        General rule of thumb for XX18 rod is the amperage is the decimal equivalent of the fractional rod size. In this example 1/8" = 0.125 = 125 amps.

        I usually run hotter, so my in position flat welds are 135 amps or so. Vertical ups are hot too...125-130 amps.

        Yes, the flux coating curling and lifting is desirable. It is a very good visual indication that the weldor has used ideal electrode angle and inclination, as well as travel speed. Sufficient heat & time has been applied to the deposited weld metal allowing all the impurities to bubble out, and the surface is smooth, allowing the flux to lift & curl.

        If you are doing in position flat welds and you have to jackhammer the flux off, it would be a good idea to spend a little more time working on your technique, as you may be incorporating weld faults into your finished work. Vertical up welds should be no different, when you are finished, you should be able to make a single pass down the joint with the edge of your chipping hammer, or another electrode, and the flux should pretty much shed right off the weld deposit.

        Now, to try and address some of your concerns:

        If you are doing an in position flat weld, and your flux starts to "run ahead" you have a few options. You can lay down the rod some more causing the molten puddle to swirl more and that may work for you. Another option is to long arc slightly and momentarily increase your travel speed to get ahead of the puddle, then re-position and continue.

        When your puddle is trying to drop out on you, again you have a few options.
        First thing is to be aware of your rod position...You want to be just slightly uphill of horizontal. The further you increase the angle from horizontal, the hotter the puddle, and the easier it will sag out.
        Next thing is your arc length - long arc lengths are hotter and will tend to sag out.

        When establishing your root pass on a curved surface - like the rounded edge of tubing - it may be neccessary to use a stepped or herringbone pattern similiar to what is commonly used XX10 rods.

        The only real trick is to establish a ledge at the bottom of the joint, then just burn in and stack on top as you climb up. If you have any doubt, just run in
        a good hot pass to dig out any slag inclusions.

        Hope that helps.

        Merry Christmas
        Last edited by Black Wolf; 12-27-2007, 06:42 PM. Reason: Correction in my explanation. Corrected word is bold faced

        Comment


        • #5
          vertical with 7018

          Welding a verical on 1/4 thick material with a 1/8 7018 isn't going to be easy for a beginner if you are trying to complete a weld in one pass. What will probably happen is the base material will get too hot and you will have burn through. You could do a quick pass uphill to fill the bevel and then come back will the second pass but you still will have a chance of burn through but not as great as trying to complete the weld in one pass.
          Your amps will be determined by your machine and since all are different, it will be set at what works for you best but you will need less amps to do a vertical on thin material verses welding on flat. My invertor settings are lower than my older rectifier Lincon while welding with the same rod so again, it's all according to the machine and your ability but don't expect the same results when you weld flat and then go to a vertical on any rod. You would be better off going to a 3/32 in. 7018 instead of fighting with the 1/8 in. 7018 but if you insist on using the 1/8 rod, then practice, practice, and practice more. You either master it or change to something else. Good luck.

          Comment


          • #6
            Today was a very frustrating day. After cranking the amps as you all said, I had a couple spots that were beautiful and some others that were horrible. I switched to 3/32 and went down to 95 amps with very mixed results. I had more control on the verts but I prefer 1/8" on the flats. You were right about the verts, while trying to hold my puddle with 1/8", I burned through the I-beam web at the recommended setting, well a little cold at 120 amps. I didn't get the fill I wanted on the flats with the 3/32 plus my 1/8 flats are very close to perfect (not quite) so there is no need to change. I get so pissed because I want every weld to be perfect and as hard as I try I just can't do it consistently. I have moments of greatness, but not consistent. I would call myself a good welder, but I'm striving to be a great welder! I have some more 8" I-beams waiting for me in the morning that have to be 100% so I will get more practice tomorrow! Thanks for the replies, they are helping me on set up and manipulation, the rest is up to me!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by swyman View Post
              I get so pissed because I want every weld to be perfect and as hard as I try I just can't do it consistently. I have moments of greatness, but not consistent. I would call myself a good welder, but I'm striving to be a great welder!
              I know the feeling. However, when you are first learning something new you have to understand that you are not going to get it perfectly the first time around everytime, it takes practice. Once you get fustrated your welding doesn't improve any either. Take a break, walk away or mabye try something else for a bit. Welding is just as much a mental activity as it is a physical one, and if you are in a foul mood or not at the top of your game your welds will suffer.

              I faced a similar situation just a few weeks ago while working on my 6010 vertical weaves, fustrating as ****. I kept going back and trying to get it perfectly and became more and more fustrated because I couldn't get it to work for me. I finally took a break from them, and when I came back to them I managed to do a rather nice job. (If I do say so myself ).

              Good luck with your welding, but don't stress too hard, welding is supposed to be fun!

              Comment


              • #8
                sq tube i will stop and start the weld several times to fill a gap depending on gap. 1/8 in rod may b a little big for that tubing and i do have a handful of that 3/32 stuff. we keep for doing repairs on silverware at chinese restaurants. flat i just angle rod a little but i let my flux form a little tiny bubble in front of rod in flat position. i dont let bubble get real big but just let it run in front about a 1/16th. you do what works for you but i found this works for me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  In my opinion, and I'm not saying I am right.....

                  I think your using too big of a rod for your verts for the size of material, 1/8 7018 seems a little big, I would try 3/32 7018...

                  Depending on what procedure you need to use at your job, could you run a light downhand 6010 to fill your gap? You would be putting less heat into your peice if you do a light downhand vert 6010, and uphand vert hot pass/cap with your 3/32 7018 rather than having to stop and tie in because your getting too hot with your 1/8 7018?

                  I would agree with the "cooling down" transition of your frustration. I know I've been really frustrated with learning to weld and there are times where, even tho it's an hour untill next coffee break, you just need a break to cool down and gain your bearing. Welding mad sux to. lol
                  Last edited by Spray Transfer; 01-01-2008, 11:58 PM.

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