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Power everywhere but no 220 230 or 240

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  • tempraiser
    started a topic Power everywhere but no 220 230 or 240

    Power everywhere but no 220 230 or 240

    I live in a place where I have power but all of it is 110v and I can't install a 220v outlet (I don't own the place). My stove is gas run, and dryer is one of those 110v high efficiency models. But I think I can steal opposite phases from some of my outlets to "make" a 220v outlet. I need advice as to what CAN be done and what is too unsafe or impossible. Note this product: http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog.htm which basically takes two 110v lines and compares them to see if they are out of phase, and if so, engages relays to send power from the opposite hot leads of the two incoming outlets to the outlets on the front of the device. This thing only handles 4400 watts (mostly because of wire and relays rated at 20A), but I know how to build it to handle more (not that outlets go any higher). Would it be safe to run a welder off one of these for 150-200 amp tig welding?

    Suppose I didn't go the 220-double-hot route. If I hooked plugs from in-phase 110v outlets together for more current, would I be up to my knees in danger? I know that outlets from different parts of a house can have different wire resistances and different voltages, but supposing I found in-phase outlets that were near each other, would this work? I have a multimeter.

    How much amperage can a maxstar 150 or 200 draw at maximum power settings with 110v? Don't show me the datasheet, I want advice about this last question from a moderator.
    Last edited by tempraiser; 12-15-2007, 07:04 AM.

  • Handy560
    replied
    this string blew a fuse...

    Just stopped back to see if there was any response, but it seems this thread has fizzled out...

    Hope all had a great holiday,

    John

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    If a guy was on the up and up with me as a landlord I might even participate with installing a legal circuit, a new wire to the panel with the right breaker. I might even feel better about that than hooking something on an existing 120V circuit especially if its older.


    and how would you feel about finding the abomination he is trying to make in one of your units ??
    think the little old lady living in the apartment above him would be ok with it ??

    Leave a comment:


  • Sberry
    replied
    They make those get ups, actually see the adds on the DIY site, as far as I know they are not UL listed or any other kind of approval, certainly doesn't doesn't even come close to the intent of the code and didn't see anything in the instructions that would suggest that this would be an acceptable idea. If a guy was on the up and up with me as a landlord I might even participate with installing a legal circuit, a new wire to the panel with the right breaker. I might even feel better about that than hooking something on an existing 120V circuit especially if its older.

    Leave a comment:


  • Handy560
    replied
    2 cents...

    Wow, lots of tension and a poor attitude. I am a general contractor who frequents several boards for information on whatever I may be dealing with. I can't tell you how thankful I am for all the great information I have gotten over the years. It is amazing how many people will take the time to respond to help a total stranger out. Being rude and arrogant really diminishes the good will that comes from the members here or on any other board.

    You really should be ashamed of yourself.

    There is nothing more aggravating than dealing with someone who asks a question, gets good advice, argues with that advice and then does whatever the f*** he wants anyway. What is the point of asking the question in the first place?

    The reality is we all have done some funky rigging to accommodate the situation and get the job done. There probably would be little harm done if you rigged up what you were talking about to run a few beads to do a repair or heat a frozen pipe.

    What you are talking about is a way to illegally work around the existing electrical installation. If I were your landlord and I caught you welding in my unit without my permission or messing with the electrical system I would file criminal charges against you. Let's see, criminal damage to property, reckless endangerment...

    The real issues are simple. There are ways and devices to create the power supply you need pretty much regardless of what service you have to your unit. That does not mean that it would be logical, cost effective, safe or legal.


    The biggest problem is not the design of the device you mention or the fact that you would go to all that trouble just so you don't need to test the circuit to verify you are pulling from seperate legs, but that you have no idea what the condition of the wiring that you are connecting to is in. You have no idea what size the breakers that are actually installed even are.

    You cannot insure that you have a safe installation just from testing the voltage at each outlet with no load. You need to verify the breakers, each phase, the grounding of the panel the receptacles and the devices, the wiring, the connections, the rating of the receptacles and THEN you have a proper perminent source.

    If you overload the wires in the wall, in many places which may not even be in conduit, you are taking a big risk and putting others at risk. If you start a fire you will be held criminally responsibly. If someone gets hurt, your done.

    Additionally, the real lack of logic is this: really you need over 20A for most any small welder to work at full capacity. So what is the point? All correctly wired standard receptacles are 15A with 14g wire. Even if you gang from 2 different legs you get 240v 15A. Properly wired 20A receptacles (usually at the kitchen splash and in some baths) should have a 20A receptacle, 12g wire. Finding two of these on seperate legs would give you 240v 20A. Still not over 20A, and way too much hassle to get there. What are you going to do, plug one end in the bathroom and the other in your kitchen and weld in your living room?

    The reality is that if you want to play, you need a correctly wired, 240v 30A outlet minimally. Now, on a small welder you are getting full power, even on a long (proper guage) cord.

    Use a 120v welder and learn how to weld with multiple passes or get a proper source.

    If one of my kids had your attitude I'd kick their a.... You should apologize to the members here and stop wasting their time.

    John

    Leave a comment:


  • neophyte
    replied
    Originally posted by fun4now View Post
    as long as this post keeps going there is a place to keep the foolishness, helps to keep the rest of the board free of it............. if it was only that easy.
    Now that's funny.....

    Leave a comment:


  • KBar
    replied
    Wouldn't the sensible thing be to rent a shop somewhere that has adequate wiring or rent an apartment somewhere else that has a 200 Amp service where you can run a welder.

    There are just too many possibilities here of things that could go wrong. And as in drunk driving, the innocent will always suffer.

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    as long as this post keeps going there is a place to keep the foolishness, helps to keep the rest of the board free of it............. if it was only that easy.

    Leave a comment:


  • monte55
    replied
    Originally posted by HMW View Post
    Will the madness ever end ???????
    Let's see......105 posts. I'm going to have to say no!

    Leave a comment:


  • HMW
    replied
    Will the madness ever end ???????

    Leave a comment:


  • Sberry
    replied
    If you are running a generator you might as well be running an engine drive welder. The only reason to run one is there is no other way, easily over 10 times the operating cost of line power, just in fuel, the cost of a genset alone would put a good dent in the price of a service upgrade.

    Leave a comment:


  • everding5792
    replied
    why not use generator to supply the power you need, save everyone the headache , some people want to make their problems everyone elses.

    cheers
    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Troll
    replied
    Gentlemen, I realize it's rough; however, in my opinion he has been nothing short of rude and disrespectfull. If there was a misunderstanding, and had he tried to set things right after his second post, I would have helped. Instead he continued to be a jerk.

    This board is full of great and helpfull guys that don't deserve the attitude tempraiser is giving. I myself have been helped and I say 'thankyou' to all that make this board the great place it is.

    I am not a great welder, so I don't post much, but I do continue to watch and listen, and I enjoy it very much.

    Kepp it up fellows, but I do stand by my post's. If it offends any of the regulars, I will say sorry to you, but not him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grumpy
    replied
    Originally posted by Troll View Post
    Tempraiser, I am a former electrician, and I am currently working on my PhD. in Quantum Mechanics; so I have extensive knowledge of electricity and magnetisim, both in application and theory. Amazingly, I have been in a situation similar to yours, and can answer most of your questions.

    However because you are such a pr1ck, I will not. I wouldn't give you the sweat off my arse if you were dying of thirst.

    FU

    Even though I agree with you that's being a little rough on the guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • tnjind
    replied
    TROLL
    That is kind of rough.

    Leave a comment:

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