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Power everywhere but no 220 230 or 240

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  • #46
    Originally posted by tempraiser View Post
    Did you see my first post? They designed a product specifically for that purpose. 220 is simply two 110v lines with phases opposite each other, so that concept is sound. The question is, would this work with a welder? Since some run at 110v, you would expect that using 220 would lighten the load (double apparent voltage, divide current in half).
    Yea and I know a guy in NY selling a bridge and another in NV selling ocean front property. My point? Anybody can sell a fool anything.

    This came from the website: "The Quick 220TM power tap technically uses the fact that 220 / 240 volts AC is supplied to most facilities. The 220 / 240 volts is divided into 110/120 volt circuits for distribution within the building. Using standard 110 / 120 volt outlets and the Quick 220, the user can quickly identify and connect to the separated 110 / 120 volt halves of the original 220 / 240, restoring the 220/240 volt AC option without adding new electrical circuits or wiring to the building."

    I'm no electrician but if I read this thing correctly (and tempraiser you would be wise to read it carefully also) without having 240 already in the building the blame thing won't work. And I'm sure some help desk jockey will tell you it will work. Just my 2.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by fun4now View Post
      i made many additions to the town home i lived in be for . all to better the value of the place, and all with prior consent from the owner. no chance this guy will get the ok to add a 240V line so he can weld. odds are good even if he gets a dyn or max star and sticks to 120V usage, he will be out on the street in no time. although judging from his attitude, i would suspect he thinks his lease will prevent the owner from throwing him out for welding in the living room..............

      some just need more help than others.
      Anti-GMAW if this is the biggest A-hole you have met i need to move where you live. i have met many well beyond this guy, not that he isn't one, just not the worst.

      No, he's definetly not the worst but man does he ever show real potential! If you nead that much amperage then take 2 smaller 110V machines and parallel the dam things. If you can't do it then you can't do it! Life has it's limits deal with it!

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      • #48
        Isn't it usually advantageous to use two different phases in your house to balance loads? I would imagine that with luck and a long (and thick) enough extension cord, I should be able to find opposite phases. Making my own from eight-gauge wire might solve distance problems.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Anti-GMAW View Post
          No, he's definetly not the worst but man does he ever show real potential! If you nead that much amperage then take 2 smaller 110V machines and parallel the dam things. If you can't do it then you can't do it! Life has it's limits deal with it!
          You can parallel machines? You mean if I bought two inverters and hooked their outputs together, I could double the output? I would think there would be problems with that
          Last edited by tempraiser; 12-16-2007, 11:23 PM.

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          • #50
            OK, take your meter and find two receptacles that are on opposite phases. Try to find the two that are closest together.
            Get, or assemble two 14/3 SOW cables with 120V 15A plugs so that they will reach these two receptacles.
            Run the free ends of the two cables to a utility box.
            Into the utility box install a 240V 15A receptacle.
            You will attach one black wire to one terminal and the other black wire to the other terminal.
            Attach the green wires together to the ground terminal.
            Attach the white wires together only to themselves.
            Put an appropriate cover on the box.
            Don't forget to use a cable clamp where the wires enter the box.
            Make very sure you know what you're doing.
            Find an electrician and show him your work before you plug it in.
            Do not blow yourself up.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by tempraiser View Post
              You can parallel machines? You mean if I bought two Maxstar 150 STH/STL inverters and hooked their outputs together, I could double the output? I would think there would be problems with that.
              Yes you can parallel machines. Not cost effective though, unless you already have two machines.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by tempraiser View Post
                Isn't it usually advantageous to use two different phases in your house to balance loads? I would imagine that with luck and a long (and thick) enough extension cord, I should be able to find opposite phases. Making my own from eight-gauge wire might solve distance problems.
                8ga is overkill. 12 or 10 would be plenty.

                Comment


                • #53
                  That's basically what I was planning to do, but I wanted a little more security. I was going to wire a microchip with a comparator, two 30A relays, parts of two of these http://www.professionalequipment.com...qx/default.htm
                  (I need to test if the hot and neutral wiring is reversed and don't want to pull out a multimeter every time), and a few LEDs to indicate opposite phase availability. With a small transformer, a rectifier, a cap, and a comparator, I could test to see if the difference between the two hots is greater than 190 volts and if so (contingent on the wiring status from the GFI testers), the relays would then both switch on (one relay for each hot line). A final test would be done on the output from the relays. A second comparator and transformer would test to see if the voltage AFTER the relays is greater than 190 volts, so that the functionality of the relays can assured. If one or more of the relays fails, both relays will be shut off. Good plan?

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                  • #54
                    Has anyone run machines in parallel before? How would you hook up a remote? A Y-splitter? Any special precautions or adapters? Do the machines have to be the same? Running on the same output settings?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Miller has a pdf on there website that will tell you everything you need to know about parralleling.
                      http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/Paralleling.pdf
                      Keep in mind, I'm pretty sure this will not work with remote amperage control Tig setups as each machine must always be ouputting the same amperage as the other.

                      As far as the doo-hickey you keep talking about, the way I see it is if you are combing two different phases from to seperate leads, wouldn't you actually be creating 3-phase power? 3-phase= two hot leads and a common lead plus a ground, does it not? That is essentially what it sounds like you are trying to do. Might I also add, it sounds very dangerous.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        No. Three-phase is three-phase. I'm speaking of combining opposite phases of of single phase power. This is exactly how everyone else gets 220v, but I'm just trying to do it by linking power from 110v sockets.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by tempraiser View Post
                          Has anyone run machines in parallel before? How would you hook up a remote? A Y-splitter? Any special precautions or adapters? Do the machines have to be the same? Running on the same output settings?
                          The only machines that I've paralleled were two Lincoln DC600's. They were 3ph machines, so you had to make sure that they were in phase, then you wired them up so that one control board controlled both SCR drivers.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by tempraiser View Post
                            That's basically what I was planning to do, but I wanted a little more security. I was going to wire a microchip with a comparator, two 30A relays, parts of two of these http://www.professionalequipment.com...qx/default.htm
                            (I need to test if the hot and neutral wiring is reversed and don't want to pull out a multimeter every time), and a few LEDs to indicate opposite phase availability. With a small transformer, a rectifier, a cap, and a comparator, I could test to see if the difference between the two hots is greater than 190 volts and if so (contingent on the wiring status from the GFI testers), the relays would then both switch on (one relay for each hot line). A final test would be done on the output from the relays. A second comparator and transformer would test to see if the voltage AFTER the relays is greater than 190 volts, so that the functionality of the relays can assured. If one or more of the relays fails, both relays will be shut off. Good plan?
                            I think that that's rather complicated and expensive. Try to keep it as simple as possible. Use the meter.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Tempriser

                              You have lived up to your name. Certainly got this thread off and running. Keep in mind the longer the wire the more voltage is lost. With the setup you are proposing you will have unbalanced legs if the wire runs are different lengths. A normal 220v installation starts at the panel and always has the same length legs. That said it will work, I saw a dryer hooked up this way once. The guy just put an 110v plug on his dryer and ran some romex from another 110v plug on the opposite main panel leg and hooked it up at the 110v receptacle. The house was set up for a gas dryer and he had an electric one. Very scary. Whatever you do be careful because the wiring in the wall is a unknown and you will be potentially pulling amps most standard 110v receptacles will never see. The other issue is the breakers, it is possible you could damage your welder if you lose one leg of the 220v. In a normal installation both legs are hooked to a bridged breaker. No way would I ever wire a 220v receptacle in this manner too much chance of burning down the house. If you do burn it down the landlord will have a very good chance of winning a lawsuit. Or his insurance. What about just using a 110v welder?

                              Paul

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by tempraiser View Post
                                No. Three-phase is three-phase. I'm speaking of combining opposite phases of of single phase power. This is exactly how everyone else gets 220v, but I'm just trying to do it by linking power from 110v sockets.
                                If you know so much, then why are you asking so many questions. If you combine two seperate phased leads, how is that any different than three phase? My Dynasty's main power cord is designed for three phase, to wire it to single phase you disconect one of the hot leads. Likewise, a three phase plug becomes a single phase plug if one of the hot leads is left unused, for instance a pigtail adapter with one wire left unhooked.

                                If you want to parrallel your input power for a higher voltage, then I wold think you would want the two plugs on the same phase, but a different CIRCUT (breaker). And on the same note, shouldn't all plugs in a house be of the same phase? Consider, the power comes into the house in one main line, which is single phase and then sent through a stepdown transformer before being distriubted to the rest of the house. There is really no reason why a phase change should take place, so all the plugs should be the same phase.
                                Last edited by shorerider16; 12-16-2007, 09:29 PM. Reason: spelling

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