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  • Syncro 200 question?

    Most of you guys know I'm a shop owner and have a couple of great guys working for me that really excel with tig (Thank God). And I have further said and as you may also know that, I suck at tig. In fact on a good day I would have to improve just to suck! However, and unless my guys are hiding out in this forum, I've kind of kept it a secret. As far as mig, stick and O/A are concerned, I consider myself the grand gasser. So on to the question, I have 2 tigs in my shop that I never use and want to get one to take home and practice with to show the boys I can tig in the event they don't already know I suck. Both my machines at the shop are Syncro's (250 & 350) and I guess they are water cooled. I'm considering getting the 200 (air cooled) which is O.K. with me as I won't be burning it up. Except for the fact the syncro is bulker, it appears to have all the features i.e.. AC/DC tig & AC/DC P-tig and of course the same with stick. it seems to have more features than it's brother the Maxstar and costs less. What am I missing here?

    TacMig
    We depend On:
    Miller | Esab | Lincoln | Fronius
    Baileigh | Drake | Eagle | Knuth
    Victor | Harris | Smith | Bessey
    Snap-On | Hilti | Ingersoll Rand
    Burco/Koco | Onan | BobCat
    Tracker | Infratrol | AmeriCast

    We belong to or support:
    American National Standards Institute
    American Welding Society
    The Welding Institute
    Fabricators & Manufacturing Association Int'l.

    Anderson & Co. LLC
    Metal Cr
    afters

  • #2
    The maxstar's are inverter machines. Portable, small = expensive.
    Syncrowave 250DX
    Invison 354MP
    XR Control and 30A

    Airco MED20 feeder
    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
    Smith O/A rig
    And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

    Comment


    • #3
      that about covers it. you have a little more adjust ability with the inverters but you can learn and produce excellent welds with the syncro200.
      the biggest advantages to the inverters are input amp requirements, frequency adjust ability and usually higher pulse rates over the syncro200. with that said miller really stepped up from the syncro180 when they went to the syncro200 they did it up nice. great first welder if you can power it at home. i had to go inverter due to power available to me at my shop. 30amps was pushing it. no way i could have given 60+ amps to feed a transformer type TIG welder. the space savings was not as much as you might think after adding a cart the footprint is not much smaller, but its a lot lighter so easy-er to move around. i did make a large cart to allow for adding a cooler later, so the large size was by choice.
      thanks for the help
      ......or..........
      hope i helped
      sigpic
      feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
      summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
      JAMES

      Comment


      • #4
        go with the dynasty 200 dx i love mine it plugs into any outlet
        1 or 3 phase Great stick welder too and if u want to take to
        the shop just put it in your front seat
        its cost more but you will never be sorry you u paid the extra
        money i got mine at cyberweld for $2500 no tax no shipping

        Comment


        • #5
          I believe the Maxstar is only DC. If you never weld aluminum it would be good. Otherwise buy the Dynasty, just my opinion. I have the SW180, the SW200 replaced it, really nice.
          Scott
          HMW [Heavy Metal welding]

          Comment


          • #6
            yep the max-star is DC only.(Dyn is AC-DC) given the choice of the max-star or syncro200 i would go syncro200 no question. syncro is AC-DC. i missed the part where you called the max a AC-DC sorry about that.
            choice of Dyn 200 or syncro 200 ??
            if $$ is not a problem go Dyn 200 . easier to power, way portable, added adjust-ability, way easier to move around the shop.
            thanks for the help
            ......or..........
            hope i helped
            sigpic
            feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
            summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
            JAMES

            Comment


            • #7
              The debate between transformers and inverters has been played out so many times, but there are always people who seem to glaze over the obvious...

              If you do primarily AL, or other AC processes: Inverter machine is the way to go.

              If you do steel, or primarily run DC processes: Transformer is the way to go.

              The DC arc voltage on a transformer machine is much higher than an inverter. That means you will get a better arc and more heat from the same "amperage." It translates to more "watts" in the puddle.

              The wave shaping and balance options of an inverter blow a transformer away on AC. You pay extra for that with the inverter. You lose out on DC performance for it as well.

              Blanket statements like "if you have the money, get ______" are asinine.

              They wouldn't sell transformer machines if there wasn't good reason to be using one over an inverter. Transformers cost a lot to make (looked at copper lately?) and distribute (suckers are heavy, and miller has to pay shipping to the dealers). They also occupy a lot of production space with how big they are and such.
              Syncrowave 250DX
              Invison 354MP
              XR Control and 30A

              Airco MED20 feeder
              Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
              Smith O/A rig
              And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

              Comment


              • #8
                my thoughts on if you have the $$ go dyn. is they are a better fit for the home shop IMO. space is usually an issue, power is shared with the house in most cases. so the inverter's lower draw is an advantage. but you are correct they are not the fit all applications answer. just essayer to accommodate on many levels. nothing against the syncro's, if i could have powered one it would be in my shop now instead of the TA-185. although if i had the $$ it would have been a Dyn.
                it really comes down to what you want out of it and what you have to offer it. aether one is an excellent choice.
                thanks for the help
                ......or..........
                hope i helped
                sigpic
                feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                JAMES

                Comment


                • #9
                  Makes sense now!

                  Originally posted by Fishy Jim View Post
                  The debate between transformers and inverters has been played out so many times, but there are always people who seem to glaze over the obvious...

                  If you do primarily AL, or other AC processes: Inverter machine is the way to go.

                  If you do steel, or primarily run DC processes: Transformer is the way to go.

                  The DC arc voltage on a transformer machine is much higher than an inverter. That means you will get a better arc and more heat from the same "amperage." It translates to more "watts" in the puddle.

                  The wave shaping and balance options of an inverter blow a transformer away on AC. You pay extra for that with the inverter. You lose out on DC performance for it as well.

                  Blanket statements like "if you have the money, get ______" are asinine.

                  They wouldn't sell transformer machines if there wasn't good reason to be using one over an inverter. Transformers cost a lot to make (looked at copper lately?) and distribute (suckers are heavy, and miller has to pay shipping to the dealers). They also occupy a lot of production space with how big they are and such.
                  Like I said in my original post, we have both the syncro 250 & 350 and I purchased these machines on the advice of my guys (who are the one's that use them). Power is not an issue for our 800 amp shop or my 600 amp home and I guess the reason my guys opted for the syncro's is because 80% of our work is steel (Railings and gates) Hence the transformer with more DC power than the inverter as you explained makes sense in our shop. Portability is not required either so I guess the syncro's are a good choice for the shop. As far as I'm concerned I think I'll go for the syncro 200 for my home garage as both portability and power are not a concern and I only play with Al.

                  Thanks all for the great feedback. a 25 year vet learning new tricks! I will learn to tig, I will learn to tig, I will learn to tig..........................

                  TacMig
                  We depend On:
                  Miller | Esab | Lincoln | Fronius
                  Baileigh | Drake | Eagle | Knuth
                  Victor | Harris | Smith | Bessey
                  Snap-On | Hilti | Ingersoll Rand
                  Burco/Koco | Onan | BobCat
                  Tracker | Infratrol | AmeriCast

                  We belong to or support:
                  American National Standards Institute
                  American Welding Society
                  The Welding Institute
                  Fabricators & Manufacturing Association Int'l.

                  Anderson & Co. LLC
                  Metal Cr
                  afters

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    the sync200

                    with your O/A background you should pick it up fairly fast.
                    for me i learned more from out of position, so try a little fairly soon. i built a cart for my welder out of aluminum. its much easy-er to see what the puddle is doing. it will give you a better idea of how the hole thing is working.............or it could really tick ya off. so don't get stressed over it, you will find your grove and be a great TIG'er. just don't rush it. good luck, keep us posted.
                    thanks for the help
                    ......or..........
                    hope i helped
                    sigpic
                    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                    JAMES

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      James, The difference in input power for a Sync 200 and a Dyn 200dx is 3.4A at the closest comparable info from Miller. Also known as 9% higher draw - but with an arc voltage nearly double that of the dyn (so almost twice the heat for 9% higher current draw - that makes me think the SYNC is more efficient).

                      Now tell me where this huge savings in electrical requirements is? Sure, one could be run with 10ga and the other needs 8.

                      The sync has a higher duty cycle for the same output, and thus isn't sitting there idle nearly as much: I suppose that saves you on your electric bill. Is that what you keep boasting with the dynasty lust?
                      Syncrowave 250DX
                      Invison 354MP
                      XR Control and 30A

                      Airco MED20 feeder
                      Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                      Smith O/A rig
                      And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's just my patience?

                        Originally posted by fun4now View Post
                        with your O/A background you should pick it up fairly fast.
                        for me i learned more from out of position, so try a little fairly soon. i built a cart for my welder out of aluminum. its much easy-er to see what the puddle is doing. it will give you a better idea of how the hole thing is working.............or it could really tick ya off. so don't get stressed over it, you will find your grove and be a great TIG'er. just don't rush it. good luck, keep us posted.
                        I've done a little with our portable 150 (of course I sucked) and sought help here a while back and too much work has kept me from getting serious. One of the problems or rather one of my problems is that; I have to learn to chill out a bit. I do most of the heavy work and dig right in with the other processes and it's just faster and more simple for me. So I think you're right about not getting stressed and just be patient and it will come around.

                        Thanks for the help/support guys..

                        TacMig
                        We depend On:
                        Miller | Esab | Lincoln | Fronius
                        Baileigh | Drake | Eagle | Knuth
                        Victor | Harris | Smith | Bessey
                        Snap-On | Hilti | Ingersoll Rand
                        Burco/Koco | Onan | BobCat
                        Tracker | Infratrol | AmeriCast

                        We belong to or support:
                        American National Standards Institute
                        American Welding Society
                        The Welding Institute
                        Fabricators & Manufacturing Association Int'l.

                        Anderson & Co. LLC
                        Metal Cr
                        afters

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          the syncro calls for a 60amp service the dyn calls for 30A. for a home that 60amps could well equate out to a needed service upgrade. as for the day to day bill, you would likely not see a difference worth mentioning at a hobby use level of weekend use.
                          i was referring to 30amps being essayer to come by.when i said lower draw is an advantage.I'm so very sorry if i have offended you and your transformers, but mostly just sorry i replied to you aggressive statement.( Blanket statements like "if you have the money, get ______" are asinine.) should have expected a pore attitude in return to any response. after all i did say it was IMO not miller spec's. you have yours i have mine and now we all have both.
                          thanks for the help
                          ......or..........
                          hope i helped
                          sigpic
                          feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                          summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                          JAMES

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Look at the miller specs for current draw. Don't look at what it says for a breaker. The breaker has to do with the dynamics of breakers and current spikes dealt with in transformers.

                            You're not offending me and my transformers. I really don't care what you prefer. If I did AL for more than just the occasional job here and there I would have an inverter along side my sync.

                            What gets me is the blatant disregard for the real core differences between the two. Saying one is better than the other based on what it takes to plug it in is stupid.
                            Syncrowave 250DX
                            Invison 354MP
                            XR Control and 30A

                            Airco MED20 feeder
                            Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                            Smith O/A rig
                            And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

                            Comment

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