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  • #16
    Oh yeah, and I don't have the time or budget to download them here, but look at the rated voltages for the two. The HH210 has a significant edge here as well, which is what let's it get into spray transfer at those 30 higher amps.

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    • #17
      Why exactly does anyone "need" spray transfer???

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      • #18
        Spray transfer why??

        Power baby! A lot of welders are doing it, they just don't know it! At a certain point you're no longer mig'n and the only thing left is SAP.

        TacMig
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        • #19
          Originally posted by MAC702 View Post
          I thought you might be, but that's just for rating purposes. We really need to go by what the machine's output at their top end. And that 30A at the top end puts the HH210 in a whole different class of machine, even if we don't look at the much easier spoolgun hookup.

          That 30A especially makes a difference if you're thinking about welding aluminum, and it also allows the machine to break into spray arc with the right gas.
          Why not compare it to the MM212. I have a MM210 and love it, the spool gun is a plug in deal and which ever gun I pick up is hot, no switches. Apples to oranges IMHO.

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          • #20
            Well, for one thing, the HH wasn't made to actually compete with the MM212/212. Duty cycle alone precludes that. I run the two side by side all the time and like both. I used the MM210 all day today and yesterday. I prefer the HH due to its smoothness and it will actually dial in better. It just isn't quite as powerful as the MM210, though, mainly because they are in different classes of machines. The HH runs alu better than the MM anyway...been there way too many times.

            Spray transfer is spec'd on many of the jobs I do. It is spray or nothing. Besides, spray is the prefered alu transfer anyway. I do not use the HH to spray though...the MM gets the nod for that one.
            Don


            '06 Trailblazer 302
            '06 12RC feeder
            Super S-32P feeder

            HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
            Esab Multimaster 260
            Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

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            • #21
              Originally posted by TS-Off-Road View Post
              Why exactly does anyone "need" spray transfer???
              An equally useful question is: "Who doesn't?"

              Don summed up the MM210/212 comparison nicely.

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              • #22
                I go back to Tonyrico's original postings. Sounds like he's looking for a quality mig that will do the job for him "now". Didn't sound like he was looking for an "industrial" machine.

                I took exception to TS-Off-Roads comment about the Hobart's being "all plastic", which just isn't the case. My comments about that have already been expressed.

                I am a Miller guy (Sync 250, Dialarc 250, and MM251 w/30A) but also have a HH187. I bought the HH187 to "bridge the gap" between a 120V Solar mig (sold by Snap-On as an autobody machine) and the MM251. The HH187 stays loaded with .030 wire. The MM251 is used with .035 and aluminum (with spoolgun). After nearly a year with the HH187, the machine still continues to impress me with it's capability. In that same time, I have not read one poster (here or on the Hobart board) who doesn't like the HH187.

                Using Cyberweld as a baseline the HH187 sells for $671.25, the MM180 sells for $779.50, and the HH210 sells for $851. For only $72 dollars difference, the HH210 sounds like a lot of "bang for the buck".

                For those wishing to compare the HH210 to the Miller210/212, I don't feel that that is a fair comparison based on cost alone. It has already been stated (quite well in fact) that the top end and duty cycle on the MM210/212 put the Miller machines into another class.

                If I was in the same position as last year (filling a gap), I would be looking seriously at a new HH210 as opposed to the MM180.
                Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                Dynasty 200 DX
                Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                Hobart HH187
                Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                More grinders than hands

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                • #23
                  Greetings all! I'm new around these parts, but have been lurking anonymously for quite some time now Anyway, I've been following this thread with some interest as I have a HH187 which is great, but I also just recently picked up a new MM210.. Haven't had the chance to play with the MM210 much, just enough to make sure it worked. But one of 'em has to go, or so says the wife. I'm getting the impression that, based on what others have said about the MM210 that it will be the Hobart that gets sold, unless someone can give me any valid reasons to keep both (and maybe some sound bites to feed the wife!).

                  PS: The HH187 really is a sweet machine and I do hope I won't regret getting rid of it.

                  Cheers,
                  Brad
                  To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid!

                  Hobart Handler 187
                  Millermatic 210

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                  • #24
                    The 210 is a superior machine and will do anything the 187 will. I am with III here, the 187 is a bridge with 030, I reach for it for light stuff. I have a 250 class with 035 but I use a small one just about as much.
                    Last edited by Sberry; 11-14-2007, 11:19 PM.

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                    • #25
                      MrUnix,

                      No question, the MM210 is a superior all around machine to the HH187. No comparison in top end or duty cycle. I wouldn't trade my MM251 for three HH187's. Low end is also good on the larger Miller machines. I even picked up a M10 (standard on the MM180/HH187) gun for the MM251 for low amp use with smaller wire (haven't even hooked it up with the HH187 around).

                      Where the HH187 (to me) shines is the portability. A buddy of mine, just last week, caught a stump with his utility trailer and ripped the spring shackles off on one side. No problem. Threw the HH187, a 40 cu ft bottle (C25), and two extension cords (50', 30A boat shorepower cord--10ga), and pigtails in the truck. Went over his house. Plugged into his dryer connection, and 30 minutes later he was back in business. Moving the MM251 around like that is not something you want to do all the time.

                      You'll miss the HH187, but the MM210 will make a fine replacement.
                      Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                      Dynasty 200 DX
                      Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                      Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                      Hobart HH187
                      Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                      Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                      Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                      PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                      Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                      Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                      More grinders than hands

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MrUnix View Post
                        ...unless someone can give me any valid reasons to keep both (and maybe some sound bites to feed the wife!)....
                        When was the last time you used the welders to make something FOR your wife?

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                        • #27
                          When was the last time you used the welders to make something FOR your wife?

                          Oh, believe me, I'm always doing little projects for her, like planters and what not for the garden.. but as far as she is concerned, it don't matter which machine I used to make 'em.. just that I've now gone out and spent more money for something that I already had!

                          It really just doesn't make sense economically to keep both. So now I'm faced with having to part with one. On one hand, as already mentioned, I love the portability of the HH187.. It really is a sweet machine that I can throw in the back of the truck along with my coleman generator and work just about anywhere. On the other hand, the MM210 is the welder that I originally wanted, but couldn't afford, which is why I wound up purchasing the HH187.

                          Now here is the kicker.. Because of the fantastic deal I got on the Miller, I could easily sell it for what I paid for both welders! I would be like someone just gave me the HH187 for free and maybe even a little extra cash to go with it.. which is really hard to pass up! I guess it boils down to deciding if I want a free HH187 or a MM210 for a great price.

                          Cheers,
                          Brad
                          To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid!

                          Hobart Handler 187
                          Millermatic 210

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Since it doesn't sound like the extra top-end and duty cycle make a difference on your projects, what is more preferable between compact size and ease of later aluminum capability?

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                            • #29
                              HH and MM

                              Hi, this is directed at this morning's poster MrUnix, but please all chime in.
                              I started this thread because of my ignorance in machine features and capabilities. I've come a long way since and even though not an accomplished welder I've done my homework. I still will choose between the MM180, the HH 187 and the MM212.
                              First, I don't see an MM 210 in the list of offerred products. Is it the MM212 that we are all talking about or the Hobart HH210?

                              MrUnix, the main and driving criteria for me is - which is the biggest of the three that I can run exclusively from my generator. It's a Coleman Workhorse with 5,500 watts running and 8,500 surge. It does have a 230v receptacle with a 30 amp breaker. Certainly the MM212 is most appealing to me because I sense that I will have it longer before having to upgrade or by it a big brother or sister to play with. But I don't want to kill the generator.
                              The MM180 looks good because it has a very (new) inexpensive aluminum spool gun, which is not the case with the MM212.

                              Thanks all. This is fun, but it also provides a tremendous value.

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                              • #30
                                Tonyrico, if you are going to be running off of that generator I would recommend the smaller units over the 212. I have used neither a miller or hobart off of one, but I have used a weldpak 155 (now known as a 175) and it is all the generator wants when it is cranked, even tripped the breakers a few times.

                                The mm212 is the new mm210 for this year. The difference between it and the mm180 is that one is a toy in a welding shop and the other is a welding machine in a welding shop. For certain things the small ones are great, but they are limited. My weldpak HD is fantastic for what I got it for (carrying up and down stairs repairing railings at apartment complexes and onsite repair of burglar bars), but that is about all it is good for. I would dearly love to have one of the old 400 amp Hobart or Linde Mig machines in my shop, but don't have 3 phase to run them. Those things are beasts and run all day and all night without a break.

                                My advice, pick the one you like because you are the one who is going to have to weld with it.
                                Lincoln: Eagle 10,000, Weld-Pak HD, Weld-Pak 155, AC-225, LN-25 wirefeeder
                                Miller: Syncrowave 250DX Tigrunner
                                Westinghouse: 400+ amp AC
                                ThermalArc Handy wirefeeder
                                1 Harris, 3 Victor O/A rigs
                                Arcair gouger
                                Too many other power toys to list.

                                Do it right, do it once. And in all things ya get what ya pay for.

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