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Curving a Piece of Pipe for a Corral Project

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  • #16
    pipe

    neither of you know what you are talking about.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by fdcmiami View Post
      neither of you know what you are talking about.
      Cocky are we ? I think both of those gents know what there talking about , you probably do to but seem to be making something simple very complicated.I'll make a suggestion , if you want folks here to listen to your ideas it would help not to slam other well respected members by saying they don't know what there talking about.Just my $.02 . Have a happy new year.
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      • #18
        Happy New Year Gary, long time no see.

        The log splitter idea works for me. Keep in mind a couple of things. The biggest of those is oil field pipe is high carbon, harder than a bad girl's heart first of the month if you know what I mean. The next biggest thing is keep in mind that demo on my web site where I bend that half by one and a half bar stock the hard way with a hammer, itty bitty bites.

        http://harveylacey.com/id25.htm

        The pipe dies will probably break before the pipe deflects if the pipe dies are cast material, harder than a bad girl's heart at work. I'd resort to them only if every thing else fails.

        Here's what I would consider doing. I would lay out a table if you will consisting of a single plane for supporting the pipe while being worked. I would cut my first piece quite a bit, three or four foot longer than needed, leverage, important.

        Next I would take that piece of pipe and mark it with a permanent marker every six inches, three hundred and sixty degrees.

        I would place the working end of the log splitter ram in the middle of the table/plane/rollers, etc. I think I would consider good chain for my restraints over blocks or dies. The chain could be attached to the stationary end of the log splitter ram. Chain also gives you a easily calculated mechanism for making consistant changes in the stroke of the ram against the pipe.

        I would start off with the chains/stops about two feet each side of the ram contact point, again, leverage. I think I would like a wide and with a very slight arc piece attached to the end of the ram. I don't think you need a concave shape for the pipe, flat will work fine, just substantial enough that the cutting edge of the log splitter doesn't split the piece and destroy a piece of pipe.

        I think I would lay out marks one inch apart that track the measurement of the ram.

        First piece of pipe in place, middle of pipe to bent centered on ram, chains in place with a spreader bar so all the bends are the same. I would go one inch of ram movement AFTER tension on chains.

        Release ram and move pipe one foot either side, ram again. Move pipe back two feet the other direction (one foot other side of center), ram again. Even though at first it might not appear you're doing anything you are. When you're done there will be an arc in your pipe. You can judge by that arc whether you should do your rams at nine inches, six inches, four inches, three inches etc and so on. Or if you should move the ram a half inch or two inches at a time.

        One of the beauties of using the chain and tension as your guide you don't have to figure in the travel of the arc as you work your way through the bending process.

        Hope this helps Gary. After you're done with the pilot piece you now have the information you need to duplicate it. You have your required ram movement measurements and your number of times and location of the bends to make your arc.

        And for you guys with the mathematical disability, try this: http://harveylacey.com/wordpress/?p=161

        There are so many edits because my wife occasionally reads my posts and my gawd, bad grammar gets my butt in more trouble........
        Last edited by wroughtnharv; 01-01-2010, 10:35 AM.
        life is good

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        • #19
          Cheap HF pipe bender?

          I have one of those cheap HF 16 ton PIPE benders that hardly ever work on thinner tubing. I have found it works quite well on stuff such as this.
          I have even bent 3" sch 40 with it.
          I have not bent any oilfield pipe so if this is different because of the hardness then I wouldn't know about it.
          It will lay on its side like the machine JS Fab showed.
          I do know the dies will fit and it would be easy to sacrifice one of these machines by chopping and adapting to your log splitter.
          I busted my outer roller dies and had them made out of steel instead and they are much stronger. Never had any trouble with the cast iron dies on the ram tho. YMMV.

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          • #20
            I do arches in aluminum mostly but sometimes in galvinized steel.If you have a choice in the mater you might consider schedule 30 2'' galv pipe, with an arch in this it would be very strong and easy to work with. I bend this with no heat using cheater bars and a comalong when necessary. I work off a trailer and sometimes use another truck for a movable dead man. I work from the center out in one direction bending about half the radius,then flipping the piece end to end, then bending about half the radius agine. Then continue bending pass the desired radius. How much, that's for you to figure out. Flip one more time and finish the bend. The trailer I use has a easy to remove plywood deck, so I weld my stops for the arch directly to the frame members. I've never worked with the pipe thats refured to here but see no reason why a veriation of this method wouldn't work. Doing everthing heavy duty and even using a truck for your bending force.I do not recommend tring this method with the truck being used as the bending force if you don't have alot of experience with the forces that were dealing with here. Good luck on your project.

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            • #21
              pipe

              1. fusion king i have several of those same pipe benders. it all comes down to this, does the poster want an true arc or a piece of pipe bumped with a bender in a number of places to form the arc. yes this can be done. but you know that to get the arc correct you are going to have to space the pipe in equal increments and also apply pressure with equal force. very difficult to do. and there are thirtytwo pieces of pipe in all. by the way, i appreciate the way you presented your post.

              2. if the other poster thinks that the math is unnecessary he might want to reconsider. if you can't handle some simple linear equations and right triangle trig you better be a god****ed good welder. the circle is a marvel, once you understand it's properties. it is a wonder it was not worshiped at some time.

              3. it only took a few minutes to do the development of this corral because i took the time early in life to study some math and take courses in what is called descriptive geometry; the fact that i could establish the elevation from chord to arc quickly allowed me to determine the best way to fabricate other than rolling (which is, by far, the best way to handle this.) once i knew that height (and i am sketching on a napkin) i knew from experience that the item could be cold formed.

              4. show dog appears to be the only one who has actually used a rosebud to do this work and he is right, bringing the material up to transformation temp will make it easier to bend and that is good if that is the only way, and most efficient way to do it. but does he want to bump up to a 120 in radius 32 pieces of schedule forty pipe. i don't think so, and remember it has to be kept flat.

              4. now, cutting a template say, to a radius of 108" for starters out of some stacked 2 x 10's and in addition putting something on them that would project and keep the pipe in place as it was being formed is a simple and cheap way to go. using expansion bolts would allow the guy to remove the wood and trim the radius when and if necessary. the pipe can be pinned on one end, the other end connected to a 15' come along. you will have to play with this a little but once it is dialed in you make a mark at the point where you will hit the radius after spring back. and then you do it 31 more times. i suggested a floor because i'm pretty sure this guy does not have the table setup that was suggested by show dog, which would work but it would have to be fastened to the floor (the table/s)

              also, something i picked up on pretty quickly here is the fact that he had his material rolled by some guy and claims he is too busy/expensive to do any more. what i think happened is he did not calculate the circumference correctly (pi x Dia, at the mean dia.) and told the guy to roll the pipe. it would obviously take at least three pieces of sch. 40 in 21 foot lengths to do this correctly. if you read his post you will see his error. i am thinking there was disagreement between him and the guy that did the rolling. 35 years at this and you tend to see things with a little more clarity.

              there are obviously some very talented people on this board; and there are quite a few know it alls, that don't know too much. i started as a welder and i'm actually a good welder but my main thing has been metal fabrication, precision sheet metal, industrial sheet metal, miscellaneous metals, light and heavy structural, marine fabrication and more. but i also recognize the limits of my abilities and frankly if i need something welded really well; i just hire a guy end of story. i don't have all the answers but in the metals trade i have a lot of them.

              also, sailor man, i like the setup you descibed and i believe it could be utilized in this instance also. great story.

              the whole point here is why throw out suggestions to someone if you don't even know what you are talking about. then again they always are the ones that have all the answers, god knows i have hired and worked with enough of them.

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              • #22
                Well said fdcmiami . Sounds like you've done this before. I've got somewhat a pic in my head of what your describing just wish I could see it more clearly.
                Last edited by Showdog75; 01-01-2010, 06:40 PM.
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                • #23
                  pipe

                  i don't take pictures of work but this set of gates i did about twelve years ago are nearby so i took a couple of pictures only to demonstrate the formation of an arc. granted this is 1/8 by 1 by 3 T6 aluminum rolled the hard way; any of the aluminum guys will tell you how unforgiving T6 can be if you don't get it right the first couple of times.i formed the arc exactly the way i described in my earlier posts. cold, the ring that is surrounding the image was rolled around a circular plywood form 24 in in dia. using 6063 T0.

                  the gate is app 14 feet wide and 15 feet tall, all aluminum. i had a foundry cast the spears on the top.

                  i have done a ton of it. 6' roll formers, press brakes up to 12' 300 tons. all kinds of material.
                  Attached Files

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                  • #24
                    Nice work.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by fdcmiami View Post
                      also, something i picked up on pretty quickly here is the fact that he had his material rolled by some guy and claims he is too busy/expensive to do any more. what i think happened is he did not calculate the circumference correctly (pi x Dia, at the mean dia.) and told the guy to roll the pipe. it would obviously take at least three pieces of sch. 40 in 21 foot lengths to do this correctly. if you read his post you will see his error. i am thinking there was disagreement between him and the guy that did the rolling. 35 years at this and you tend to see things with a little more clarity.
                      I six pieces I had rolled were 31' long. He rolled them in to half circles of about 20' in diameter. Even though he has a pretty high dollar roller, his setup for working long pieces wasn't very good and the shop was so small and cluttered, that the process was a mess. The six pieces ended up not being very uniform. But there seems to be enough spring in the pipe that with some tweaking, I can make it work.

                      This guy also runs another business that is doing much better than his gate buiding business, so I was not a prioriety for him. No dissagreement or error in my math. I just want to be able to do my own bending.
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                      • #26
                        Hey Harv, I like your ideas. I think I may try the method you used on your web site with the flat bar. Only, I'm going to use my log splitter ram instead of a hammer and elbow grease. My elbow doesn't have that much grease in it.

                        I have a forty ton press that can bend an arc in some some 2 1/2" solid round bar I have laying around. I'll use that for the backbone of my jig. I'll make the radius slightly tighter than I need to allow for some spring back. I'll use your idea of a radius nose for the hydraulic ram - again, with a slightly tighter radius than required so I can bend it just past the arc for spring back.

                        If I were to use the chain method, I'm not sure I have chains strong enough. A plus to the other method is that can form the radius all the way up to the end of the pipe and reduce the waste.

                        Now, if we can all just get along on this board...
                        Last edited by garybdavis; 01-01-2010, 08:20 PM.
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by fdcmiami View Post
                          4. show dog appears to be the only one who has actually used a rosebud to do this work and he is right, bringing the material up to transformation temp will make it easier to bend and that is good if that is the only way, and most efficient way to do it. but does he want to bump up to a 120 in radius 32 pieces of schedule forty pipe. i don't think so, and remember it has to be kept flat.
                          I have used heat to form pipe when absolutely nothing else was available. I can say that it goes through gas in a hurry... and that ain't cheap!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by fdcmiami View Post
                            neither of you know what you are talking about.
                            2. if the other poster thinks that the math is unnecessary he might want to reconsider. if you can't handle some simple linear equations and right triangle trig you better be a god****ed good welder.....

                            ****

                            4. show dog appears to be the only one who has actually used a rosebud to do this work and he is right.....
                            Wow.... Your arrogance is only bested by your ignorance...

                            We already have a number of Holier Than Thou Know-It-Alls on this board, so why not at least ONE more?

                            By your posts, I would have to guess that you have offended thousands of competent tradespeople that have more actual hand-on abilities than yourself.

                            Here is a concept from the Real World:

                            I would love to see you walk on to a Pipeline Right of Way and tell the sideboom operator bending an arc in a pipe that he "has no idea what he is talking about", and should do it the way you scratched it out on a napkin instead.....

                            I have no doubt that you have an education, and that you are knowledgable in this area... But your head is getting in the way of your hands. This project is NOT HARD to do...and you are making way more complicated than it needs to be.

                            Go ahead - pound on that keyboard, and try to blow sunshine up your own backside if that gets your rocks off.... It matters little to me.

                            You may wish to consider removing that last picture in your post... This is a welding forum after all, and I can see why you need to hire someone ELSE to do the welding.
                            Later,
                            Jason

                            Professional Spark Generator by Trade.

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                            • #29
                              pipe

                              well then maybe the sideboom operator should have responded instead of you.

                              another "reggie in wolf's clothing."

                              lol

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by garybdavis View Post
                                Hey Harv, I like your ideas. I think I may try the method you used on your web site with the flat bar. Only, I'm going to use my log splitter ram instead of a hammer and elbow grease. My elbow doesn't have that much grease in it.

                                I have a forty ton press that can bend an arc in some some 2 1/2" solid round bar I have laying around. I'll use that for the backbone of my jig. I'll make the radius slightly tighter than I need to allow for some spring back. I'll use your idea of a radius nose for the hydraulic ram - again, with a slightly tighter radius than required so I can bend it just past the arc for spring back.

                                If I were to use the chain method, I'm not sure I have chains strong enough. A plus to the other method is that can form the radius all the way up to the end of the pipe and reduce the waste.

                                Now, if we can all just get along on this board...
                                Gary fence tubing, .154 wall (absolute minimum for schedule forty classification I understand) is pretty reasonable right now. It will bend easier and have a lot less spring back than oil field tubing. Keep in mind the arc gives your material a lot more strength, more than enough to make up the difference oil field pipe offers under these circumstances.

                                MS told me you were looking for my number. Give me a call, I've got a question about something totally unrelated to ask you.
                                life is good

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