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  • spray welding gas info needed

    I am somewhat new to spray welding and have been using 92%argon, 2% oxygen mixture with great results. I am trying Airgasses steel mix extra (argon-helium-carbon dioxide) which I was told performs great on mill scale and oily material. I canít get the arc stabilization initially as I start the weld, it takes 3/4 of and inch to stabilize and it asks globular as this happens sending spatter all over. I have tried numerous settings, sickouts, and flow rates. I have a brand new MM350 (which I love) am running .045 e70 wire, 300 Bannard. Please help


    Dana

  • #2
    Some heavy sruff...

    What materials are you using and what type of weld are you trying to make. Lap, Butt, corner??
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    • #3
      spray

      At this point i am just trying to control the splatter. I am welding scrap A36, A572, A656, A514. I can get some nice welds at 30 V and 380 ipm at 35 cfh but the splatter is very bad. I tried cleaning the material and it’s still there. I switched back to 98argon 2oxygen and there is no spatter at all not even one. I must be doing something?

      i am doing butt lap and just welding on top of scrap at this point to try and adjust
      Last edited by dvcarrara@shoreham.net; 10-04-2007, 10:01 AM.

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      • #4
        airgas stell mix extra does not allow a true spray transfer. i know this from experience. the helium in the mix creates too much heat and causes spatter. give them the bottle back and stick with 90/10 or 92/8. if you are going to short transfer then the mix extra will be better. the 90/10 bead doesnt lay down very flat, you'll have to crank up the inductance past the recomended settings if you want to stay with 90/10. i also use the mm 350p and i love that machine as well. i can spray at 28.5 volts and 500 ipm with 0.35 wire and the 90/10 mix. so, the "steel mix extra" isnt all that it is cracked out to be.

        last year i ran into a problem with spray transfer. we had just switched gas suppliers and the management got talked into this "extra" mix. after several headaches and questions later we went back to the original supplier and back to 90/10 and everything was back to normal.
        welder_one

        nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metal
        www.sicfabrications.com

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        • #5
          oh, and by the way, welcome to the board.
          welder_one

          nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metal
          www.sicfabrications.com

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          • #6
            Agree..

            I agree with welder_one, gas mix is critical in ST and keep an eye on your material all your "A" material you are using for practice is struc-1 carbon and can be tricky to ST with higher inductance levels. I have good results with 95/5 and .35 wire and perhaps you might want to back off the .45 just for grins to see how .35 and even .30 works for you. For all it's worth perhaps the best advice I can give you on this one is to be sure to log your results for future use!

            TacMig
            We depend On:
            Miller | Esab | Lincoln | Fronius
            Baileigh | Drake | Eagle | Knuth
            Victor | Harris | Smith | Bessey
            Snap-On | Hilti | Ingersoll Rand
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            Tracker | Infratrol | AmeriCast

            We belong to or support:
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            Fabricators & Manufacturing Association Int'l.

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            Metal Cr
            afters

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            • #7
              spray welding

              Thank you for your help.

              What do you recommend is the best gas for spray? You mentioned 90% argon and 10%co2, how does this differ from 98ar-2ox? I was told that co2 cools the gun tip better allowing longer welding times. I had a MM251 previously, and at sometimes I thought I was going to melt the gun. What other differences do you see? I spoke to a few people and everyone has their own favorite. I weld a lot of high strength steel and the 98-2 works great, or at least it has, or I thought it did. I read in my books that you canít spray with anything under 90 % argon, so how does steel mix extra say that you can spray when they only have 68% argon?
              So going to the .035 is better, this must lower the spray transition current? I will call my gas supplier and change tanks; I agree the extra is impossible.
              Thank you both
              Dana

              Comment


              • #8
                no prob, dana. i am not sure about the other mixes 98/2, or 95/5. i have never used them. only one i have used for spray transfer is the 90/10 (with any luck). i agree that you need atleast 90% argon to achieve spray. glad that i could help.
                welder_one

                nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metal
                www.sicfabrications.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good luck.

                  I hope I added a little insight. REMEMBER keep that log! it's your best guide you will have in the future!
                  We depend On:
                  Miller | Esab | Lincoln | Fronius
                  Baileigh | Drake | Eagle | Knuth
                  Victor | Harris | Smith | Bessey
                  Snap-On | Hilti | Ingersoll Rand
                  Burco/Koco | Onan | BobCat
                  Tracker | Infratrol | AmeriCast

                  We belong to or support:
                  American National Standards Institute
                  American Welding Society
                  The Welding Institute
                  Fabricators & Manufacturing Association Int'l.

                  Anderson & Co. LLC
                  Metal Cr
                  afters

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When is it benificial to use the sprayweld process? and what exactly is it?
                    I have heard of it but not tried it. My esab should be capable I might try it.
                    Tim
                    Tim Beeker,
                    T-N-J Industries
                    (my side bussiness)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tnjind View Post
                      When is it benificial to use the sprayweld process? and what exactly is it?
                      I have heard of it but not tried it. My esab should be capable I might try it.
                      Tim
                      it is beneficial any time you can use it. real hard on 1/8 thick. impossible any thinner. so leave it to the thicker stuff. flat and vertical down, i havent tried overhead or horizontal. it has a very hot and fluid puddle. the biggest advantages are waste and speed. there is hardly any spatter in spray transfer so less wasted filler metal. the travel speeds are so much faster that you can increase production by alot. the welds are a bunch cleaner too.

                      not only does the machine need to handle it but the gun needs to be able to handle it as well. the heat is phenominal when you are doing it alot.

                      spray transfer is when the voltage (the length of the arc) is pretty high and it heats the filler to a molten state before it touches the parent metal, creating an axial spray per say. you are capable of thicker fillets in a single pass and real good penetration as well.

                      i usually set my machine around 28.5 volts or higher depending upon thickness, and the wire speed about 485 to 500 with .035 wire. straight stringer passes are desired when using spray transfer.

                      i think i got everything, more questions, just ask. and someome else might have more to add
                      welder_one

                      nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metal
                      www.sicfabrications.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have experience exactly what you described, my eab is a 450 and I put a Bernard 400 amp gun on it. I cranked the power on some thick stuff, it was just as you described, like holding lightning.
                        Tim.
                        Tim Beeker,
                        T-N-J Industries
                        (my side bussiness)

                        Miller Synchrowave 350LX with tigrunner
                        Esab 450i with wire feeder
                        HH135 mig
                        Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 51 plasma cutter
                        Miller aircrafter 330 - sold
                        Marathon 315mm coldsaw
                        vertical and horizontal band saws
                        table saw
                        Dewalt cut off saw
                        Sand blast cabinet
                        lots of hand grinders
                        Harris torch
                        beer fridge

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          When in spray transfer a little bit of oxygen is good for wetting of the puddle. you can tell with out it it just doesn't want to flow as nice.

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                          • #14
                            Spray transfer puts down more metal, doesn't having the same cold lapping issues globular/short circuit transfer soes, and when welding to code it doesn't have the thickness limitations as the globular does.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by welder_one View Post
                              it is beneficial any time you can use it. real hard on 1/8 thick. impossible any thinner. so leave it to the thicker stuff. flat and vertical down, i havent tried overhead or horizontal. it has a very hot and fluid puddle. the biggest advantages are waste and speed. there is hardly any spatter in spray transfer so less wasted filler metal. the travel speeds are so much faster that you can increase production by alot. the welds are a bunch cleaner too.

                              not only does the machine need to handle it but the gun needs to be able to handle it as well. the heat is phenominal when you are doing it alot.

                              spray transfer is when the voltage (the length of the arc) is pretty high and it heats the filler to a molten state before it touches the parent metal, creating an axial spray per say. you are capable of thicker fillets in a single pass and real good penetration as well.

                              i usually set my machine around 28.5 volts or higher depending upon thickness, and the wire speed about 485 to 500 with .035 wire. straight stringer passes are desired when using spray transfer.

                              i think i got everything, more questions, just ask. and someome else might have more to add

                              Hi W1,
                              Something you mentioned elsewhere about a P-P vs spoolgun has me scratching my head. Whats the diff? how is a P-P better than the spool gun in your opinion ? thanks
                              Will it weld? I loooove electricity!

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