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MIG or stick on this one?

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  • MIG or stick on this one?

    Heres some background... the middle tank weighs 17 tons, about 45 feet tall, and empty (and washed) of diesel. certified by the fire marshall and all. i have to build 8 brackets to weld to the top outside edge of the tank for the crane to pick up the tank, and lay it down in the area to the right in the picture. the crane operator is using shackles with a 1" dia. pin. i was planning on using 3/4" or 1" plate steel, making "T"s so i have some substantial welds on the tank (which is a 5/16" wall thickness)

    I'm still perfecting my uphill stick, so i was thinking of running .045 in my suitcase, running a couple passes. any other opinions?


  • #2
    or should i just run a 75/25 mix with a solid wire?

    Comment


    • #3
      I would use the suite case with flux core in .045 and run it on a deep vgroove from both sides,,,uphill of course.

      Peace,
      Paul

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      • #4
        I would use mig. I didn't like the part where it was "certified by the fire marshall". Now i work in a refinery and that tank would need blinded and rechecked at least 2 hours before the welding was done. So if anything i would get it re sniffed before you start. The sun seems to bake out some smelly stuff. Just my thoughts...Bob

        Comment


        • #5
          Your text in a readable version. BTW, I would just use 6010 downhill, piece of cake.

          "Heres some background... the middle tank weighs 17 tons, about 45 feet tall, and empty (and washed) of diesel. certified by the fire marshall and all. i have to build 8 brackets to weld to the top outside edge of the tank for the crane to pick up the tank, and lay it down in the area to the right in the picture. the crane operator is using shackles with a 1" dia. pin. i was planning on using 3/4" or 1" plate steel, making "T"s so i have some substantial welds on the tank (which is a 5/16" wall thickness)

          I'm still perfecting my uphill stick, so i was thinking of running .045 in my suitcase, running a couple passes. any other opinions?"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by walker View Post
            Your text in a readable version. BTW, I would just use 6010 downhill, piece of cake.

            "Heres some background... the middle tank weighs 17 tons, about 45 feet tall, and empty (and washed) of diesel. certified by the fire marshall and all. i have to build 8 brackets to weld to the top outside edge of the tank for the crane to pick up the tank, and lay it down in the area to the right in the picture. the crane operator is using shackles with a 1" dia. pin. i was planning on using 3/4" or 1" plate steel, making "T"s so i have some substantial welds on the tank (which is a 5/16" wall thickness)

            I'm still perfecting my uphill stick, so i was thinking of running .045 in my suitcase, running a couple passes. any other opinions?"
            Downhill ? You gotta be $hitting me. I can't believe someone would even suggest such.I'd definately not hard wire it either. Good 'ol 7018 uphill or flux-core uphill.No offense but if your still "perfecting" your uphill stick I'd be leary of you welding it period. It's not that big of a deal welding wise but you would hate for your welds to break and leave you liable for anything or anyone.Also if the wall thickness is 5/16" your wasting alot of metal for those brackets, your metal is only as strong as the thinner of the two if materials are the same for both pieces.

            Comment


            • #7
              7018 or flux core would be what i would use! 7018 if a cert was needed! Been wanting to get a cert with flux, just haven't yet!

              Comment


              • #8
                Definently not down hill as the penetration would be insufficient. The deal here is that he will have no where near the amount of shear needed to break a proper 6010 or any 60?? series rod for that matter. Welding this in virtually any rod your comfortable with will be sufficient. Spreading the load of the eye to a wider area is a good idea as it will make a shear tear less likely so using a thicker eye plate is reasonable. Also do not place the eye brackets flush to upper edge. moving them inboard from the upper edge will also reduce the possible shear and tearing forces as it is turned over.

                Peace,
                Paul

                Comment


                • #9
                  by inboard of the upper edge, do you mean lower on the wall, or more on the top? the crane company asked me to just get the hole for their shackle outside the 2" lip on the top. my plan was to make up a plate 1/2" thick, 10" wide, 14" tall, welded to the tank, in the taller direction, and the plate with the eye coming off that 6" in a T direction, 9" down the plate, made from 3/4" material.

                  the T's would be fabbed in the shop, so the 10x14 plate would just have to be welded to the tank in the field.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Down the side, if it merges with the top lip it could cause a tear point. As beefey as the mounts your building it should be a fine set up for the crane rigging.

                    As always caution be your guide, if it looks suspect then stop and fix it.

                    Good Luck,
                    Paul

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just moved some tanks at work. 43' tall x 13' diameter, 27,000 lbs. each according to the crane operator. Two lifting lugs on the top, about 6" wide x 10" long, and approx. 1" thick, with a hole for a 1" dia. lifting lug. Don't torch or plasma cut the hole - it should be drilled. The holes sit above the top of the tank. The plate has to be thick enough to take the weight of the tank, and needs to spread the load along the length of the weld bead. BTW, these lugs were OEM from the tank manufacturer.

                      If in doubt about the welding, have the welds mag particle inspected before lifting. Some crane operators may insist on it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think the "T hook" design introduces unnecessary complexity. More places where it can fail. Remember Occam's razor.

                        A reasonable worst case scenario would be having a failure that placed the entire load on two eyes.

                        8 A36 bars, 5/8" thick, 3" wide, (length not critical), with a 1" hole drilled at one end (1" away from any edge) can be welded on the sides.

                        2 would support the entire weight of this tank during lifting. The other 6 are an insurance policy.

                        Each would need to have at least 10 inches of 1/8" fillet welds on the sides. 5 inches per side minimum. This is using 70ksi electrodes.

                        The last part gives you an idea of how well they need to be welded. You only need 10" of good 1/8" fillet on each eye tab to hold the whole shooting match up with two eye tabs. If it were me, I'd make the welds a little heavier than 1/8". But due to the thickness of the eye tab plate, I would only recommend 7018. The eye tab plates shouldn't be thinner because bearing surface failure would become an issue (thickness is the only variable you can control).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bodybagger View Post
                          I think the "T hook" design introduces unnecessary complexity. More places where it can fail. Remember Occam's razor.

                          A reasonable worst case scenario would be having a failure that placed the entire load on two eyes.

                          8 A36 bars, 5/8" thick, 3" wide, (length not critical), with a 1" hole drilled at one end (1" away from any edge) can be welded on the sides.

                          2 would support the entire weight of this tank during lifting. The other 6 are an insurance policy.

                          Each would need to have at least 10 inches of 1/8" fillet welds on the sides. 5 inches per side minimum. This is using 70ksi electrodes.

                          The last part gives you an idea of how well they need to be welded. You only need 10" of good 1/8" fillet on each eye tab to hold the whole shooting match up with two eye tabs. If it were me, I'd make the welds a little heavier than 1/8". But due to the thickness of the eye tab plate, I would only recommend 7018. The eye tab plates shouldn't be thinner because bearing surface failure would become an issue (thickness is the only variable you can control).
                          the only issue with that would be the 2" lip at the top, and the two rows of rivets right below that. I went with the T hook, or padded lifting eye design because of the thin wall of the tank, only 5/16".

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This is probably a simplistic idea but have you thought of contacting the manufacturer of the tank? I would think that the engineers that designed the tank could give you some valuable information. Just my thoughts.
                            Nick

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              not on a holiday weekend, and when the crane is going to be there tuesday morning...

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