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  • #31
    Originally posted by Bodybagger View Post
    In my experience, of the illegal, undocumented workers that work for less than minimum wage, about 95% of them were American citizens.

    Why would Americans chose to be illegal workers? Several reasons.

    They don't want the money to count against their food stamps or welfare benefits.
    They don't want money taken out for child support.
    They don't want to pay taxes.
    They have active arrest warrants and don't want to be found by the authorities.

    Now if you want to talk about drugs and mayhem, methamphetamines and prescription drug abuse is as big as heroin and cocaine. And that meth is cooked up right here in the good ol US of A by American citizens with no teeth and sores all over their face. After all, they sell their crank for way cheaper than the stuff trafficked from Mexico.

    And depending what neighborhood you live in, you can't let people know that a family member has cancer because that would risk armed home-invasion robbery to steal their supply of OxyContin.

    But the portion of the US drug problem due to trafficking across the border with Mexico gets blamed on hard working people who snuck in here to try to feed their family. Nobody ever blames the American doctors and lawyers that spend big bucks to party with coke, do they?

    They would not smuggle it if we stopped buying the stuff. The US is the largest user of cocaine in the world. I know a thing or two about drugs after watching a few people very close to me throw their life away, attending a few funerals, and working firsthand on overdose after overdose in the back of an ambulance. And after putting my life on the line so many times on the front lines of the war on drugs, I am very offended when someone basically blames day laborers for this problem, as well as all the other problems we got ourselves into.
    Very well said.
    The definition of courage. "It's when you know you're licked before you begin, but you begin anyway and you see it through to the end no matter what." From "To Kill a Mockingbird"

    Comment


    • #32
      In my experience there are unsavory people from every country and every race. That is not to say that I don't support stopping illegal traffic at the borders. Either drugs and people or firearms, stop the traffic going both ways.

      I have had the pleasure to open a manufacturing facility in Mexico and it was done to service the industries in Mexico by an American company. What I found was a labor pool that was motivated, easy to teach and didn't have the same attitude that we find in the U.S. The workers were proud to be Mexican, they loved their country and wanted to raise their families there. As Americans I think we and me included often fall into this idea of superiority. While we are productive and can drive the progress of an economy we also have an element of freeloaders here. We often hear complaints about "Mexicans" coming to "take our jobs" well if we could do the job and not have the social state of take care of everyone things might be different. You can't fault a guy for wanting a better life for his family, isn't that what we are all working for? If we didn't have such a nanny state would people be wanting to come take advantage of it?

      I might sound a little indignant or uncaring of the unemployed but I have been there, I hated it and went to work getting an education, I crammed a 4 year degree into a short 5 years. I went back to school when I was 30, I had 3 kids and a mortgage, I quite my full time job and went to school. I worked hard at any part time work I could find, started my own companies had a miscarriage and then another kid, built 2 houses and fought cancer with my wife. When I graduated I had companies knocking on my door and offering 50% more than what they were offering other graduates. I am consistently contacted at least twice a week and offered positions all over the world to work.

      Life is good and work is good to quote Senior De Hoyos in Sabinas Coahuila Mexico.

      If a guy like me can do this anyone can.

      What I have learned from traveling around the world and working is that we as Americans have a pretty narrow perspective, right or wrong and that there are many different ways to look at this world.

      I say if a guy in Guatemala has a good idea and does good work then good for him. He isn't asking for your job, he doesn't want to live in your country or your house. He is sharing in the brotherhood of welding and creating something from a pile of nothing and for that I say well done. Good job.

      If you feel threatened by the bookshelf he built then I suggest you get back into school and tune up. There is always someone waiting to do your job and he doesn't live in Guatemala he lives in your home town and he just got laid off.

      Comment


      • #33
        Diamondback .............


        Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Hobbyist View Post
          Hobbyist,, please enable your private messages?????
          Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

          Comment


          • #35
            hobbyist...another guy from sacramento?

            3/4 of the guys I work with were born in mexico. I have no complaints as the co workers are reliable and willing to learn (most of the time).

            Comment


            • #36
              My opinion use to be the rank and file type. " if you're going to live here speak the language" "I want every illegal deported" "There clogging up our hospitals"

              Well After working in Mexico, supporting US & Japanese companies setup in Mexico. Seeing the conditions the general population lives in. Experiencing it first hand I can tell you the Mexican immigrant is not a threat to America. The vast majority of Immigrants (legal or Illegal) Are simply trying to better them selves and their family. If you want to lay blame on them Don't!! Blame their Government. That Is the true cause of the problem. The Mexican Government Doesn't teach their general population English. Nor do the Public education systems provide a good education. Your family needs to be well off or wealthy for the children to get a decent education.
              The swine flu out break killed business in Mexico City and now the government is going to dump millions of dollars as a stimulus package. If they would dump that money in to education and infrastructure We would not have half the immigration problem.

              So don't blame someone for trying to better themselves. If your going to do that you may as well blame your self too. What the difference between You trying to further you welding and fab skills to make more money and provide for your family and a guy immigrating to our country because his country will not support him educationally speaking and the job market sucks.
              Most people here come from a Blue collar family. We had to work and earn everything we own. Nothing was given to us. Most had to work and go to school at the same time. All these people are trying to do is make a better life for themselves And I can't blame them for that. As for the criminals and smugglers that are here illegally I say Line them up I'll stand on the firing line.
              And just remember if you skin is anything but red you are an immigrant too.
              Miller Syncrowave 200 W/Radiator 1A & water cooled torch
              Millermatic 252 on the wish list
              Bridgeport Mill W/ 2 axis CNC control
              South bend lathe 10LX40
              K.O. Lee surface grinder 6X18
              Over 20 years as a Machinist Toolmaker
              A TWO CAR garage full of tools and a fridge full of beer
              Auto shades are for rookies
              www.KLStottlemyer.com

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by kcstott View Post
                And just remember if you skin is anything but red you are an immigrant too.
                Actually, "Native" Americans were immigrants at one time too, albeit an earlier time. The question isn't are you an immigrant but when did you or your ancestors come to this land? But since you brought up "red skins", don't forget that most Mexicans (and other Latin Americans) have more "Native" blood than most US residents, even though the various pre-Columbian civilizations they descend from get no legal recognition in this country as being native. They didn't get their darker tones from the Spaniards.

                Creo que hemos perdido el hilo original. Estábamos hablando acerca de una estantería, no?

                Comment


                • #38
                  First, the expanding feature is neat but without an "X" type brace I think it might fold up at the wrong time. Second, I would have put plastic pipe caps over the ends to keep from hurting my self or my wood.

                  I hope the guy can read English since I speak no Spanish.
                  What I can not understand is that all posts I have read have been in English so why post in Spanish? If he is having someone translate for him they could have written the post in English.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hola a todos:

                    Yo tuve unicamente la intención de compartir un trabajo que realicé.

                    Veo mucha pobreza en algunos comentarios. Miller es una fábrica multinacional con sedes en varios países, donde construye o vende su maquinaria.

                    No tenemos derecho los usuarios de este foro a expresar nuestros trabajos, porque no hablamos el inglés. Claro que si.

                    Es triste ver la discriminción aún en un foro como este. Se supone que la nación americana es donde predomina la democracia, no podría ser así el foro.

                    Lástima que algunos piensen todavía que son como conquistadores del mundo.

                    Agradezco a los que han recibido de buena forma mi colaboración, entendiendo que cualquiera que respete las reglas del foro, puede aportar sus ideas o hacer preguntas. Eso es nobleza, inteligencia, integridad.

                    O solo un americano puede tener ideas y los demás no. Los que opinaron negativamente a mi mensaje, quiero decirles: los compadezco por su falta de humanidad, de inteligencia, de sentido común. Son tan pobres que lo único que tienen es considerarse mejores que los demás. Pero por dentro, no valen nada.

                    A los demás: Mis respetos y saludos cordiales.

                    No me desaniman esos malos comentarios, al contrario, me dan coraje para saber que valgo más que otros que son mezquinos.

                    TRADUCCION DEL MENSAJE POR YAHOO BABEL FISH:



                    Hello to all

                    I unique had the intention to share a work that I realised.

                    I see much poverty in some commentaries. Miller is a multinational factory with you soothe in several countries, where it constructs or it sells his machinery.

                    We do not have right the users of this forum to express our works, because we did not speak the English. Clear that if.

                    It is sad to still see the discriminción in a forum like this. One assumes that the American nation is where the democracy predominates, could not be therefore the forum.

                    Pity that some still think that they are like conquerors of the world.

                    I am thankful to that they have received from good forms my collaboration, understanding that whatever respects the rules of the forum, it can contribute its ideas or make questions. That is nobility, intelligence, integrity.

                    Or an American only can have ideas and the other no. Those that thought message negatively, I mean to them: I feel sorry them by its lack of humanity, intelligence, common sense. They are so poor that the unique thing that they have is to consider itself better than the others. But on the inside, they are not worth anything.

                    To the others: My warm respect and greetings.

                    They do not discourage those bad commentaries to me, on the contrary, give anger me to know that I am worth more than other than are stingy.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Solopripo - Thank you for responding to this unfortunate twist to your post. I've stayed out of this whole mess and find some of the comments in it completely despicible. I for one think it's a shame that when a person foreign to the United States posts a welding related thread on a welding site that he is subject to this bigotry. I don't speak Spanish, but understand some of the written language so, I understood what you were kind enough to share with us. Thank you for sharing your work with the members of this site and please don't let some of the less cordial members discourage you from continuing to share with us.

                      To the members that got off on the illegal alien tangent -- SHAME ON YOU!!!

                      This thread had nothing whatsoever to do with that issue and is not the forum for a discussion of its' merits. If you want to debate that issue, please take it somewhere else.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by sccatech View Post
                        ...What I can not understand is that all posts I have read have been in English so why post in Spanish? If he is having someone translate for him they could have written the post in English.
                        Dude, you have five posts here, counting this one where you talk about "all the posts [you] have" read here. Been lurking for a few years, have you?

                        We've had Spanish posters before. And some of us have replied in Spanish to them. Or are you just concerned that Miller doesn't have enough bandwidth and memory for their website that it can't have threads in more than one language? How thoughtful of you!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Thank you for posting using Yahoo babel fish.

                          If you would have taken the time to use to start with it would have saved same time.

                          Google has a good auto translator also.

                          I think you did some nice work, thank you for sharing it with everyone.

                          Welcome to the great welding forum of Miller, lots of great people here with lots of knowledge.
                          Tim Beeker,
                          T-N-J Industries
                          (my side bussiness)

                          Miller Synchrowave 350LX with tigrunner
                          Esab 450i with wire feeder
                          HH135 mig
                          Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 51 plasma cutter
                          Miller aircrafter 330 - sold
                          Marathon 315mm coldsaw
                          vertical and horizontal band saws
                          table saw
                          Dewalt cut off saw
                          Sand blast cabinet
                          lots of hand grinders
                          Harris torch
                          beer fridge

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Those auto translators are absolute crap.
                            Compare this human translation to the robot translation.

                            Hello everyone:

                            My intention was to share my experience with a project.

                            I find some of the comments pitiful. Miller is a global manufacturer that sells and sources from many countries.

                            It seems that people are not allowed to express themselves on this forum if they don’t speak English.

                            It’s sad to see that kind of discrimination on a forum like this. People assume that America is the land of democracy, but not on this forum.

                            It’s a shame that some still think they are the conquerors of the world.

                            I'm thankful that a few were able to get some ideas from my contribution. It's my understanding that anyone who follows the rules of the forum can contribute ideas or ask questions. That’s noble, shows intelligence, and integrity.

                            Can only an American have ideas and no one else? To those that think negatively of my message, I want to tell you that I pity your lack of humanity, intelligence, and common sense. You're so poor that the only thing you have is the belief that you are superior. But on the inside, you amount to nothing.

                            To all the others: My respect and sincerest greetings.

                            The malicious comments don’t make me feel bad. On the contrary, they provide assurance that I am better than the jerks.
                            I'm going to think of solopripro's message every time I see a native english speaker who *thinks* they can speak english get on here and make a complete mockery of the English language.

                            At least solipripro wrote with excellent usage, grammar, spelling, and mechanics. And that's much more important to conveying an idea than the language.

                            The following is NOT a robotic translation.

                            Voy a pensar del mensaje de solpripro cada vez que veo un maldito ignorante gringo quien supone que pueda hablar ingles, pero no sabe como escribirlo.

                            A lo menos solopripro escribió su propio lenguaje con una gramática excelente y eso es más importante para compartir una idea que el idioma / lengua.

                            Por favor perdonan los errores del español, lo leo mucho mejor que lo escribió.



                            Originally posted by solopripro View Post
                            Hola a todos:

                            Yo tuve unicamente la intención de compartir un trabajo que realicé.

                            Veo mucha pobreza en algunos comentarios. Miller es una fábrica multinacional con sedes en varios países, donde construye o vende su maquinaria.

                            No tenemos derecho los usuarios de este foro a expresar nuestros trabajos, porque no hablamos el inglés. Claro que si.

                            Es triste ver la discriminción aún en un foro como este. Se supone que la nación americana es donde predomina la democracia, no podría ser así el foro.

                            Lástima que algunos piensen todavía que son como conquistadores del mundo.

                            Agradezco a los que han recibido de buena forma mi colaboración, entendiendo que cualquiera que respete las reglas del foro, puede aportar sus ideas o hacer preguntas. Eso es nobleza, inteligencia, integridad.

                            O solo un americano puede tener ideas y los demás no. Los que opinaron negativamente a mi mensaje, quiero decirles: los compadezco por su falta de humanidad, de inteligencia, de sentido común. Son tan pobres que lo único que tienen es considerarse mejores que los demás. Pero por dentro, no valen nada.

                            A los demás: Mis respetos y saludos cordiales.

                            No me desaniman esos malos comentarios, al contrario, me dan coraje para saber que valgo más que otros que son mezquinos.

                            TRADUCCION DEL MENSAJE POR YAHOO BABEL FISH:



                            Hello to all

                            I unique had the intention to share a work that I realised.

                            I see much poverty in some commentaries. Miller is a multinational factory with you soothe in several countries, where it constructs or it sells his machinery.

                            We do not have right the users of this forum to express our works, because we did not speak the English. Clear that if.

                            It is sad to still see the discriminción in a forum like this. One assumes that the American nation is where the democracy predominates, could not be therefore the forum.

                            Pity that some still think that they are like conquerors of the world.

                            I am thankful to that they have received from good forms my collaboration, understanding that whatever respects the rules of the forum, it can contribute its ideas or make questions. That is nobility, intelligence, integrity.

                            Or an American only can have ideas and the other no. Those that thought message negatively, I mean to them: I feel sorry them by its lack of humanity, intelligence, common sense. They are so poor that the unique thing that they have is to consider itself better than the others. But on the inside, they are not worth anything.

                            To the others: My warm respect and greetings.

                            They do not discourage those bad commentaries to me, on the contrary, give anger me to know that I am worth more than other than are stingy.
                            Last edited by Bodybagger; 05-17-2009, 07:49 PM.

                            80% of failures are from 20% of causes
                            Never compromise your principles today in the name of furthering them in the future.
                            "All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work." -Sgt. Bilko
                            "We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others." -Pascal
                            "Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything." -Pascal

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Gracias

                              De nuevo, doy las gracias a los que entienden que este es una parte de la página de Miller, donde se muestran PROYCETOS DE SOLDADURA.

                              No importa quién los haga, de dónde sea.

                              Lo importante es compartir nuestros trabajos con los demás.

                              No me desenimo al ver las discusiones que se han dado. si algunos consideran que deben discutirse cosas sobre política, inmigrantes, ilegales, drogas o cualquier otro asunto, creo que están en el foro equivocado, porque esto es para los que hacemos trabajos en metal, soldadura, y otras cosas y las queremos compartir por si alguien está interesado en tomar una idea.

                              Gracias a todos.

                              Solopripro

                              In english: Basbel Fish Traductor

                              Again, I give thanks to that understand that this it is a part of the page of Miller, where are PROYCETOS OF WELD.

                              It does not matter it does who them, from where it is.

                              The important thing is to share our works with the others.

                              Not me desenimo when seeing the discussions that have occurred. if some consider that things on policy, immigrants, illegal must be discussed, drugs or any other subject, I believe that they are in the mistaken forum, because this is for which we do metal works, weld, and other things we want and them to share in case somebody is interested in taking an idea.

                              Thanks to all.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Gracias por su opinión.

                                Originally posted by Old Sporty View Post
                                Solopripo - Thank you for responding to this unfortunate twist to your post. I've stayed out of this whole mess and find some of the comments in it completely despicible. I for one think it's a shame that when a person foreign to the United States posts a welding related thread on a welding site that he is subject to this bigotry. I don't speak Spanish, but understand some of the written language so, I understood what you were kind enough to share with us. Thank you for sharing your work with the members of this site and please don't let some of the less cordial members discourage you from continuing to share with us.

                                To the members that got off on the illegal alien tangent -- SHAME ON YOU!!!

                                This thread had nothing whatsoever to do with that issue and is not the forum for a discussion of its' merits. If you want to debate that issue, please take it somewhere else.
                                Gracias a todos

                                Comment

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