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  • Chemolene

    Can anyone give me any information about this gas, or perhaps an informative web site that I can read up on it? I'd appreciate it.

  • #2
    Try Google...Bob
    http://www.weldingweb.com/archive/index.php/t-3694.html
    Last edited by aametalmaster; 08-17-2007, 06:11 PM.
    Bob Wright

    Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

    Comment


    • #3
      I have, I'm getting a lot of MSDS sheets, suppliers & makers of the gas, but no real info. Thanks for the link.

      Comment


      • #4
        Try this link:http://www.weldingweb.com/archive/index.php/t-3694.html
        ... at Weldingweb.com.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not sure how much this helps, but...

          Chemolene seems to be a brand name for Propylene. Most of the Google references I found for chemolene were for flamework or lampwork. Flamework and lampwork refer to a glass melting process (I do some lampwork). Since lampwork is done at a much lower heat than metalwork, that suggests that oxy-chemolene's heat isn't as high as oxy-acetylene.

          But here's some heating temperatures for your own comparison:
          Oxy-Acetylene 5700-6300°F
          Oxy-MAPP 5300°F
          Oxy-Propylene 5240°F
          Oxy-Natural Gas 5040°F
          Oxy-Propane 4500°F

          I'm not a welder by trade, but my understanding is that the hotter the cutting flame, the less heat is transferred into the material. Since a hotter flame cuts faster, the material doesn't get as hot and there's less warping. So it seems that if O/A burns about 500-1000°F higher than oxy-propylene, then O/A would be the better choice?

          They don't recommend using the same hoses for propane/propylene and acetylene. So you'll need 2 sets if you use both. That's what I have. I think you also need to use oxy-propane cutting tips for oxy-propylene. But don't quote me on that. Check with your local supplier.

          Jon
          Last edited by jonnymag; 08-18-2007, 01:07 AM.

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          • #6
            thanks everyone. my supplier was trying to get me to choose chemolene over acetylene. It's pretty clear that ace is the better choice.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jachin View Post
              thanks everyone. my supplier was trying to get me to choose chemolene over acetylene. It's pretty clear that ace is the better choice.

              I disagree, quite strongly. Propylene in my humble opinion is the best choice for oxy/fuel cutting operations and here is why.
              1) Propylene has much better heat transfer properties than does acetylene
              2) Propylene is much safer. Because of acetylene’s unstable nature it is unlawful to operate acetylene at pressure’s higher than 15 PSI. This can cause what is known as a disociative gas explosion. Propylene can be used at full cylinder pressure if need. When you use a rosebud, multiflame, heating head with acetylene you need to properly size the volume of acetylene to the heating head. You can only withdraw 1/7th of an acetylene cylinders volume at any given time. Failure to do so puts you at risk of over drawing the cylinder. When that happens you can starve the torch for fuel. Anyone that has ever operated a heating head and the torch starts whistling…that is the sound of the flame burning back into the heating head/torch searching for more fuel. Another thing that can happen when you over draw the cylinder is you can pull acetone (one of the stabilizing agents in an acetylene cylinder) out of the cylinder. It will ruin your torch, regulator, hose and the cylinder valve….not mention the safety hazard.
              3) Propylene cuts approximately 30% faster than acetylene. There are basically 2 flames in an oxy/fuel flame. The primary flame is the long flame that does the preheating, the secondary flame is actually what kindles the steel for cutting. While acetylene has a hotter primary flame, propylene has a much much hotter secondary flame (almost double) something like 963 degrees vs. 1900degrees. So propylene may take a second or 2 longer to preheat it cuts much faster because of it’s extremely hot secondary flame. Another neet thing is you can literally be 1-1/2” off the material and get a good clean nearly dross free cut.
              4) Cost! The bottom line is what everyone wants to hear about. I always use a medium sized acetylene cylinder in my example. And this is based on prices in my area. 130 Cu. Ft. acetylene cylinder list price runs about $38.00. A 25 Lb. Propylene container runs about $40.00. Both cylinders are about the same physical size. The propylene container will last 2 to 2-1/2 times longer than acetylene.

              Now some fun facts about our dear friend acetylene. The acetylene industry is in real dire straits. The cost to produce acetylene continues to soar in an upward way. There are 3 things that is driving the cost up.
              1) Calcium Carbide is a product that is used to make acetylene. The cost of this product is ever rising because of the hazardous nature of this product.
              2) When you make acetylene the Calcium Carbide is reduced to a sludge type material that must be disposed of in accordance to Hazardous Waste rules and regulations….very very costly. And the cost keeps escalating.
              3) As many as 15 years ago an acetylene cylinder never had to be held to any testing or qualification process. Now cylinders have to go thru a qualification process based on the age of the cylinder, etc. Basically what they do is take he valve off the cylinder and measure the amount of porous filler (the other stabilizing agent in an acetylene cylinder) in the cylinder. They have a go/no-go gauge that they insert in the cylinder’s valve seat and measure the filler. If it hits above or below the tolerance of the gauge the cylinder has to be scrapped. No adding or removing filler…it’s outta here. Now these cylinders can’t just be chucked in a dumpster . They have to be disposed of in accordance to hazardous waste rules and regs. Let me tell you it’s not cheap. Some of the real old cylinders had asbestos for a porous filler.

              Okay who’s got a beer for me…time to get off my soapbox.
              Rich Ferguson
              Sales Technician
              Jackson Welding Supply Co.
              "Keep America Strong.....Weld It"
              www.jacksonweldingsupply.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jonnymag View Post
                I'm not sure how much this helps, but...

                Chemolene seems to be a brand name for Propylene. Most of the Google references I found for chemolene were for flamework or lampwork. Flamework and lampwork refer to a glass melting process (I do some lampwork). Since lampwork is done at a much lower heat than metalwork, that suggests that oxy-chemolene's heat isn't as high as oxy-acetylene.

                But here's some heating temperatures for your own comparison:
                Oxy-Acetylene 5700-6300°F
                Oxy-MAPP 5300°F
                Oxy-Propylene 5240°F
                Oxy-Natural Gas 5040°F
                Oxy-Propane 4500°F

                I'm not a welder by trade, but my understanding is that the hotter the cutting flame, the less heat is transferred into the material. Since a hotter flame cuts faster, the material doesn't get as hot and there's less warping. So it seems that if O/A burns about 500-1000°F higher than oxy-propylene, then O/A would be the better choice?

                They don't recommend using the same hoses for propane/propylene and acetylene. So you'll need 2 sets if you use both. That's what I have. I think you also need to use oxy-propane cutting tips for oxy-propylene. But don't quote me on that. Check with your local supplier.

                Jon
                Hey Jon,
                Don't get caught up thinking that the higher the overall temp the better the product. The things you should be looking at is the higher BTU rating which propylene has over acetylene.

                You are correct on the hose. You eed to use a grade T hose. Most cutting outfits come with either a grade R or RM hose. If the hose is fairly new and still has writing on it you can read it should say either "ACETYLENE ONLY" or "ALL FUEL GASES". The only thing else youy have to change out is the tip. The most common propylene tips are a 2 piece tip.

                I'm just going by memory on these propylene posts. What I posted is fact, there is more info I can post up once I get in work Monday if you guys want specifics on flame temps, BTU's and other info just say so.
                Last edited by jwsrep; 08-18-2007, 01:22 PM.
                Rich Ferguson
                Sales Technician
                Jackson Welding Supply Co.
                "Keep America Strong.....Weld It"
                www.jacksonweldingsupply.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Rich,

                  Thanks for the clarification. Keep hearing that acetylene is on its way out -- especially here in Hawaii. But can't seem to get any clear consistent info on alternative fuels. The gas supplier (gaspro/airgas) tells you one thing and the torch rep (victor) tells you something else

                  If I change to Type T hose and propylene cutting tip, will I be able to use my same equipment? Or is there more? If so, how much more?

                  I already have 2 setups -- 1 for my OA torch and 1 for my oxy-propane lampwork torch. Last thing I want in my very very small space is a 3rd setup for alt fuel. I'm just trying to do some artwork, I don't plan on opening my own welding business

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jonnymag View Post
                    Rich,

                    Thanks for the clarification. Keep hearing that acetylene is on its way out -- especially here in Hawaii. But can't seem to get any clear consistent info on alternative fuels. The gas supplier (gaspro/airgas) tells you one thing and the torch rep (victor) tells you something else

                    If I change to Type T hose and propylene cutting tip, will I be able to use my same equipment? Or is there more? If so, how much more?

                    I already have 2 setups -- 1 for my OA torch and 1 for my oxy-propane lampwork torch. Last thing I want in my very very small space is a 3rd setup for alt fuel. I'm just trying to do some artwork, I don't plan on opening my own welding business
                    Actually Jon, If your torch outfit is a Victor you may already have a grade T hose. Victor Equipment has been shipping grade T hose in their cutting outfits for the past few years. If you look on the hose it should read "acetylene only" or " all fuel gases". If you can't read it play it safe and replace te hose with a grade T hose. Then just changed out your tip to a propylene tip and you are set.
                    Important thing to remember: you can use an acetylene regulator for propylene, but you can NOT use a propylene/propane regulator for acetylene. The reason for this is because propylene/propane regulators have the ability to be used at a higher pressure than 15 PSI. It is ILLEGAL to use acetylene at anything higher than 15 PSI.
                    Rich Ferguson
                    Sales Technician
                    Jackson Welding Supply Co.
                    "Keep America Strong.....Weld It"
                    www.jacksonweldingsupply.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jwsrep View Post
                      Actually Jon, If your torch outfit is a Victor you may already have a grade T hose. Victor Equipment has been shipping grade T hose in their cutting outfits for the past few years. If you look on the hose it should read "acetylene only" or " all fuel gases". If you can't read it play it safe and replace te hose with a grade T hose. Then just changed out your tip to a propylene tip and you are set.
                      Important thing to remember: you can use an acetylene regulator for propylene, but you can NOT use a propylene/propane regulator for acetylene. The reason for this is because propylene/propane regulators have the ability to be used at a higher pressure than 15 PSI. It is ILLEGAL to use acetylene at anything higher than 15 PSI.
                      Thanks. Unfortunately, my Victor uses a RM hose. But my Nortel bench burner has a T hose.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Chem-O-lene

                        Chem-O-lene is the only fuel gas on the market that has a similar flame temperature to Acetylene.

                        Those who tell you it is a propylene are wrong.

                        Propylene will get to 5300 degrees max, Chem-O-lene will burn at 5800 degrees.

                        Propylene is a residual product from refining crude oil, Chem-O-lene is a Hydrocarbon blend like acetylene but is carried by propane as opposed to acetone in acetylene.

                        It is a cleaner, safer gas and performs well in comparison to acetylene. It costs about half of whatr acetylene will cost.

                        I don't know when i have seen such a complete array of incorrect info.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chem-O-lene View Post



                          I don't know when i have seen such a complete array of incorrect info.
                          Well how about some more good cheer like where to get it, how much does it cost vrs acetylene maybe we would like to know...Bob
                          Bob Wright

                          Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
                          http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by aametalmaster View Post
                            Well how about some more good cheer like where to get it, how much does it cost vrs acetylene maybe we would like to know...Bob
                            Be interesting to see if he responds
                            I'm not late...
                            I'm just on Hawaiian Time

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chem-O-lene View Post
                              Chem-O-lene is the only fuel gas on the market that has a similar flame temperature to Acetylene.

                              Those who tell you it is a propylene are wrong.

                              Propylene will get to 5300 degrees max, Chem-O-lene will burn at 5800 degrees.

                              Propylene is a residual product from refining crude oil, Chem-O-lene is a Hydrocarbon blend like acetylene but is carried by propane as opposed to acetone in acetylene.

                              It is a cleaner, safer gas and performs well in comparison to acetylene. It costs about half of whatr acetylene will cost.

                              I don't know when i have seen such a complete array of incorrect info.
                              OK Chem-o-lene is not propylene. Other than that what was incorect in the posts about propylene? How does you brand name gas outpeform propylene and where can you get it? This is not a jab it is real question and I would like to know more as I am planning to do a lot more gas work in the future.
                              Weekend wannab racer with some welders.

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