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Gas VS Diesel

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  • Gas VS Diesel

    I need some advice from someone in the know. Currently I run the new TB302G and since this machine only has 55hrs of use, it is just starting to break in nicely. I was wondering if anyone else had noticed that the TB's don't seem to find their own sweet spot until about the 80 to 100 hr mark. I rigged and ran 3 different units for the company I worked for before I went on my own and they all acted the same way. Right from new they will work excellently in any position with the appropriate rod except for a 1/8 7018 which seems to choke the arc until about 80 hrs when suddenly the work like a charm too I was wondering who amongst us has ran both the gas and the diesel 302's and how does the diesel rank against a Lincoln 305D. I am plenty familiar with the bigger Miller and Lincoln diesels and what my little 302G lacks in grunt, it makes up for in arc quality and light weight versatility. So, around all my rambling, my ???? is, is the diesel that much better to justify the extra cost and weight. Thank you in advance for your opinions and advice.

  • #2
    Ok, first off, I have zero experience with the TB diesels....but, based on lifespan/cost of the 3600 rpm diesel vs a properly PM'd gasser, you won't save much money, if any. If it were a bigger machine and motor, I'd say yeah, get the diesel. But based on my numbers I crunched when I got my TB302, the diesel was flat out way too expensive to justify unless there were specific conditions that required a diesel engine, like refinery work or something like that. If I was going to spend that kind of money, I'd get a bigger machine and be done with it...otherwise stay with gas on the smaller machines. The diesels have better longevity on the 1800 rpm units, but they are very close on the 3600 rpm units from what I have been told. A good gasser that is taken care of can hit 6000 hrs if you are careful. I have seen several of the old Onans do that on TB's and Bobcats.

    My TB302 has been running 7018's just fine since it was started up. Actually, it started out just fine, and has gotten a little better as I approached 65 hrs or so. Some of that I figured was just me learning what it liked and adjusting to match. If it is the unit breaking in, I would suspect the diesel would do the exact same thing since the generators are the same.

    Don't know if my rambling helped, but I would stay with a gasser. Go diesel on the big boys....but that is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Should be interetsing to see what everyone else will say.

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    • #3
      I agree with DDA52.
      In most any applications, truck or welder, gas is generally less expensive in maint costs, unless you need a truck or welder in the "big" sizes.
      We've got gas and diesel welders and it seems the gas are a little smoother and a little quieter, but we bought diesel so it could run off the trucks fuel tank.

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      • #4
        Gas VS Diesel

        My machines run on gas.the only time you would need diesel is when you are in very cold country.Gas is way cheeper to fix and get parts for.But like anything eles if you don't take care of what you own then how can your machines take care of you.As for the cost difference thats why I bought Gas.
        You can have the gas run off your truck tank as well.It comes down to dollars and cents I guess.I live in the Vancouver area and I think most of the portables out here are diesel.It doesn't get that cold here but people buy these diesel trucks and right away they need a diesel welder I don't get it but hey dollars and cents.I have gone to Alberta with my stuff never had a problem so I don't know.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by HMW View Post
          I agree with DDA52.
          In most any applications, truck or welder, gas is generally less expensive in maint costs, unless you need a truck or welder in the "big" sizes.
          We've got gas and diesel welders and it seems the gas are a little smoother and a little quieter, but we bought diesel so it could run off the trucks fuel tank.

          Now diesel trucks...that is a different animal. I will go with a truck in a heartbeat. Been running them since '90 and will never go back to gas. My last Dodge went 136K with zero engine repair, just reg maint stuff. My last gasser had to have plugs cap and rotor and a carb at or about 50K miles...and again at 85K. Since I went all diesel trucks, my maint costs are even lower. Small welders, no.....trucks, big or small....absolutely.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DDA52 View Post
            Now diesel trucks...that is a different animal. I will go with a truck in a heartbeat. Been running them since '90 and will never go back to gas. My last Dodge went 136K with zero engine repair, just reg maint stuff. My last gasser had to have plugs cap and rotor and a carb at or about 50K miles...and again at 85K. Since I went all diesel trucks, my maint costs are even lower. Small welders, no.....trucks, big or small....absolutely.
            well that truck must have been before about 1987. Been fuel injection on most since. Our fleet is mixed with gas and diesel with larger stuff diesel. The gas engines, some with 200K miles do fine. We put plugs, cap and rotor in at 100K. Probably biggest thing with gas we've had, is electric fuel pumps. I have never had one, but I understand the dodge with the cummins is outstanding. Where I work we have Fords and Chevys. The old [ford]7.3 was a work horse, reliable and tough. Then along came the 6.0 which we work on constantly, jurys still out on the 6.4. The Chevys with the Dura-max, so far, seem good. only a couple of injector problems and lots of instrument clusters so far but pretty reliable. A pickup, for example thats used for normal things is a waste of money to buy diesel. [my opinion of course]In original purchase price, and if any repair costs. diesel fuel costs the same as gas. Now, to haul your heavy welder around everyday of its life or tow trailers constantly, diesel would be the one I'd go with. so I like both, just depends.
            Our road trucks are diesel because they are either F-800s or C-8500s. Both big models. Chevys have the C-7 CAT and the Fords have the Cummins. We do have one small road truck 3/4 ton chevy with service body and diesel bobcat, thats gas. it has 199,298 miles to be exact. Original trans, engine and all. Had to put intake gaskets on it twice is all.
            Just my 2 cents worth

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            • #7
              Almost forgot, I understand Ford may be going to put a CAT w/ Allison in their Super Duty's in the future. That might be a killer combo.
              Last edited by HMW; 08-17-2007, 10:39 AM. Reason: spelling

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HMW View Post
                Almost forgot, I understand Ford may be going to put a CAT w/ Allison in their Super Duty's in the future. That might be a killer combo.
                almost all trucks have had a rumor that they were going to have a cat with an allison tranny combo. i wouldnt hold your breath on that one. an insider said to me to look for an all international diesel in the new fords. they're going back to the "old school" power stroke. as far as the allison, gm pretty much got the meat hooks into them pretty deep. probably wont see allison in med. duty trucks except for g.m. for a long while

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by burnie View Post
                  Right from new they will work excellently in any position with the appropriate rod except for a 1/8 7018 which seems to choke the arc until about 80 hrs when suddenly the work like a charm too
                  do you know how to seat a generator? if you know what i am talking about and you have tried that, then i am out of ideas except a gas burner for the smaller machines and a diesel for the bigger ones. it just works out better unless you want to have the same fuel type for everything.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HMW View Post
                    well that truck must have been before about 1987. Been fuel injection on most since. Our fleet is mixed with gas and diesel with larger stuff diesel. The gas engines, some with 200K miles do fine. We put plugs, cap and rotor in at 100K. Probably biggest thing with gas we've had, is electric fuel pumps. I have never had one, but I understand the dodge with the cummins is outstanding. Where I work we have Fords and Chevys. The old [ford]7.3 was a work horse, reliable and tough. Then along came the 6.0 which we work on constantly, jurys still out on the 6.4. The Chevys with the Dura-max, so far, seem good. only a couple of injector problems and lots of instrument clusters so far but pretty reliable. A pickup, for example thats used for normal things is a waste of money to buy diesel. [my opinion of course]In original purchase price, and if any repair costs. diesel fuel costs the same as gas. Now, to haul your heavy welder around everyday of its life or tow trailers constantly, diesel would be the one I'd go with. so I like both, just depends.
                    Our road trucks are diesel because they are either F-800s or C-8500s. Both big models. Chevys have the C-7 CAT and the Fords have the Cummins. We do have one small road truck 3/4 ton chevy with service body and diesel bobcat, thats gas. it has 199,298 miles to be exact. Original trans, engine and all. Had to put intake gaskets on it twice is all.
                    Just my 2 cents worth

                    That truck was an '87. To each his own I suppose. I actually pull with my trucks. Average load is 8k to 10k#'s. Gas trucks were eating me alive in fuel costs and not lasting very long. I guess we were too rough on them. When I went to diesel, all was better. Way better mileage and power...not to mention longevity. I also run class 8 trucks, so I am not a stranger to diesels.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've used the gas and diesel Lincolns and Millers in the large machines. As in ya needed a one ton truck just to haul them around. I couldn't tell a difference in the way they welded by brand from gas to diesel. We used the diesels in construction primarily because practically everything on site ran on diesel. Saved on idiots putting the wrong fuel in. That could be illustrated by the bobcat they filled with diesel. I thought it was hilarious, but the welder that used it was some unhappy.

                      After using first a Hobart Champ I think it was (some years ago), a Ranger 250, Eagle 10,000, and Trailblazer DC I see no reason to ever buy another of those huge and terribly expensive monsters. I buy new, depreciate until the warranty runs out (3 years), buy a new one and sell the old one or keep it for a spare in case one breaks or I need another. I drive a 3/4 ton diesel and for most purposes it is overkill, but the price was better than right, and it's a great truck.

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                      • #12
                        I drive a 3/4 ton Dodge diesel and like Jolly Roger said, it's probably overkill but after getting used to deisels years ago, I can never go back to a gas job other than my muscle car (65 Olds 88, 560 horses,) I always ran Ford diesel company trucks but when I became a contractor, I fell into an 03 2500 Dodge and I will say this... after driving that Dodge, I'll never fix another Ford. That 03 Cummins pulling 1500lbs of welding crap will just eat my 04 6 litre hands down.
                        welder_one I have heard the term "seating a generator " but that is where my knowledge ends on that subject. I should have added that my TB and the company TB's I ran all seemed to weld better after an 11 hour day of 3/16 rod burning. It seemed like a guy just needed to stretch them out and warm em up a little and after that they ran perfect and welded even better. I don't know... is that seating a generator?

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                        • #13
                          Sounds like it to me, but I'm not sure. Mine ran better after running some big flux core around 320a. Got her good and stretched out that day.

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                          • #14
                            gas vs diesel

                            gas is easier to start in the cold cheaper to fix but fuel eats you diesel on the other hand is easier on fuel but the hammer comes down when its time for repairs but as far as trucks id say diesel for hauling cause all the torque is made in low rpms so it doesnt feel what its pulling where as gas just dissapears and is hard on your vehicle ciao, ps if your machine is coughing on a 1/8 rod id be selling it back to the dealer i got it from i burn 5/32 and 3/16 some days all day and my rig just keeps on goinand luvin it all the while

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                            • #15
                              That is the strange part. The TB's only coughed on 1/8 for the first 50 to 80 hours; after that there were no problems at all. I rarely touch a 5/32 but my TB will just pour on a 3/16 for as many hrs a day as I can keep going. That is why the arc choke on 1/8 (with a new machine) is so confusing. Luckily it goes away after a few hrs. After today I have 66 hrs on and the arc (which cleaned up around 50 hrs) just keeps getting better. In spite of a short term arc quality quibble that goes away, I figure that the arc quality is as good (or better) than the big diesels. My original question was just to find out from the rest of you guys who else might have noticed that little quirk about the TB and to get a second take on the subject.

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