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  • fun4now
    started a topic need help with stick welding up.

    need help with stick welding up.

    i'm trying to learn to stick weld and have gotten OK at flat welds but decided to try welding up wile i had a few sticks left.
    i'm still on my first 5 lb box of rod ( i have 40 left so i think i'm about 1/2 way threw it) so don't be too hard on me just give some pointers or some idea of what i should be trying to do?? i really need to see some one do it right before putting too much time into practicing the up part. my flats are not too bad. so a few pointers on how i should be moving the stick or amps changes needed ??
    i don't have much material to work with that will work with the rod's i have so i been using some 3/16" diamond plate thats very rusty but i am doing the best i can to clean it up before welding on it. i decided to make a dinner bell out of it so i don't just waist the steel and i been wanting one anyway..


    i'm using 1/8" 6013 rod's. a TA-185 (inverter) power source. set at DC 80 amp's. welding on 3/16" steel diamond plate, rusty but i'm cleaning it purity good. they are but welds, not a perfect fit they have some gap's up to about 1/8" max.


    the first pic is the only one of the 3 tries welding up i did. the first 2 were so bad i feared breaking the camera so no pic's on them. yep thats right i have only tried this 3 times, but felt i was so bad i better figure out what i'm supposed to be doing so i don't continue to struggle to get it right when not doing it right to start with. i don't want to keep practicing the wrong way.

    i tried doing little circles and a u weave as well as a strait line no weave up weld. none seem to be working out to great. so what should i stick to and try to make work ??
    as i'm keeping this thing when i'm done i cleaned up the bad welds and went over them with a flat position weld in a U weave pattern to make it not so hard to look at after i painted it.
    any help is greatly appreciated. don't worry about giving beginner pointers as i said i'm still very new at it and have never seen it done right so give me any hints you can think of.
    thanks.

    pic's
    1) is my 3rd rod try at welding up.
    2) is the weld grounded off to cover up.
    3) is my attempt at a 2nd pass weld to make it look nicer.(done in the flat position)
    4) is it painted and ready to make noise. well almost it needs a ring striker still.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by fun4now; 08-14-2007, 02:51 PM. Reason: spell check. 8^))

  • Jolly Roger
    replied
    For practice it shouldn't hurt, at least starting out. It is always best to practice on the same material you will be testing on. Also same electrodes and procedure.

    Pipelining was originally done with O/A, and yes you can put a stringer in with it. Eventually portable machines were available and stick technology had progressed to the point it is now preferred. It is much faster and much easier than O/A. There is a definite trick to smaw welding pipe, and it doesn't work well outdoors at all. I have never seen nor heard of fcaw on pipe. It's the same thing for TIG. It isn't well suited at all for pipelining, wind, speed, need for back purging, etc. TIG is used a lot in construction, but almost exclusively on high chrome, stainless, and certain other alloys of pipe. The construction jobs I was on all mild steel was done with sticks. In the New Mexico oilfield stainless is primarily welded with sticks. If you have ever been there you know the wind never stops blowing.

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    thanks Rich,
    looks like i'm shooting for a AWS D1.1 code , 3g & 4g guess i better get to burring. i'll give ya a call or stop by when i'm ready to try over head.

    if i wanted to practice 1/2" could i just stack 2 1/4" plates and prep them as 1. would that weld the same ??? or close enough to count for learning?? or would it burn totally different as 2 pieces ??

    Leave a comment:


  • jwsrep
    replied
    Originally posted by fun4now View Post
    [COLOR="Blue"]. my coupons were red almost yellow. it definitely had some built up heat. i'm starting to see some definite disadvantages to stick.
    I should have told you this yesterday when you were in the store. When doing multiple passes, you need to monitor the interpass temerature. Usually the interpass temperature should not exceed 550 degrees F. Also if you were doing a NYSDOT test you would have to preheat the coupon to 350 degrees, weld a pass, check the temperature of the coupon, let cool to 350 degrees, weld another pass and so on. You use the temperature indicating crayon type sticks (temp sicks) to monitor your interpass and preheat temps. AWS D1.1 Structural Steel Code does not always mandate that you measure interpass temperature, but it is a good thing to do.

    To control the mechanical and microstructural properties of weldments, interpass temperature is just as important as, if not more important than, preheat temperature. Yield and ultimate tensile strengths of the weld metal depend greatly on interpass temperature. A high interpass temperature can reduce weld strength and at the same time result in a finer grain structure and improved Charpy V notch-toughness transition temperatures. However, when interpass temperatures exceed approximately 500 F, this trend is reversed. In fact, the American Welding Society Position Statement on the Northridge Earthquake recommends that interpass temperature not exceed 550 F when notch toughness is a requirement.

    There are other times when a designer may want to limit the maximum interpass temperature. For example, if he expects a minimum strength level for a particular component that could experience extremely high interpass temperatures, due to its size or welding procedures, he would specify a maximum interpass temperature. Otherwise, weld strength may be unacceptably low. A maximum interpass temperature is also necessary for quenched and tempered steels. Due to their heattreating characteristics, engineers must control interpass temperature within limits in order to provide adequate mechanical properties in the weld metal and HAZ.

    Leave a comment:


  • jwsrep
    replied
    Originally posted by Bert View Post
    Hey Rich! I bet that "tennis elbow" won't bother you if I take you fishing for mahi mahi, ahi or a marling, eh????

    I would list that under physical therapy

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    . It has a lot to do with the thickness of the parts you are joining. The heavier (thicker) they are the less problem it becomes because there is more area for the heat to spread to.
    my coupons were red almost yellow. it definitely had some built up heat. i'm starting to see some definite disadvantages to stick. for some reason i always saw stick as a fairly fast process. not shore why, maybe i just figured it would have to be a fast process to be out on the pipe lines when they are trying to get the stuff laid as fast as possible. i suspect every one is faster then me but i still see it having some real speed bumps. thats not to say it doesn't have some advantages, i just thought it would cover more per stick. thinking of 2 or 3 passes seems like a real time killer one stick at a time.

    thanks for all the help guys. i'm still trying to get this down and really appreciate all the tips and help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bert
    replied
    Hey Rich! I bet that "tennis elbow" won't bother you if I take you fishing for mahi mahi, ahi or a marling, eh????

    Leave a comment:


  • jwsrep
    replied
    Originally posted by Bert View Post
    jwsrep...yeah, by February, I should be starting on the right side of the house
    jonnymag=
    Hey Bert....is now a good time to tell you I have a real bad case of tennis elbow?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jolly Roger
    replied
    seemed like by the time i got to the 3rd stick i had to turn down the amps a bit.

    That is normal in uphill welding, especially with 7018 because heat rises. You will also see it in MIG. I normally just pull out and let things cool back down a little bit if it gets to be a problem. It has a lot to do with the thickness of the parts you are joining. The heavier (thicker) they are the less problem it becomes because there is more area for the heat to spread to. It doesn't hurt anything to turn down a little when it gets to that point.

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    I will have to get someone to take a pic of my uphill grip. It is a little different and involves bending the rod, but it works really good for me
    cool, always good to try new options.
    getting some one else to take the pic is a good idea, it was harder than i thought to take a pic of my own hand. although the welding gloves probably didn't help the situation.
    how about a few pic's of your welds wile you are at it.
    you don't have to clean the slag every rod,if your quick enough changing rods you can burn into your tie in nicely without any inclusions etc(trust me on this and try it out for yourself)it'll save you alot of time when you need it.
    i was thinking stick welding was kinds slow, even considering my lack of experience. i also thought the time used to clean allowed the metal to cool a bit. seemed like by the time i got to the 3rd stick i had to turn down the amps a bit. am i messing up or should i just hold longer to fill more as it heats up and cuts in deeper??

    Leave a comment:


  • Jolly Roger
    replied
    Looking very nice for no longer than you have been at it. I've known so-called pros that weren't that good. Of course all they did was chase drilling rigs.

    Cut your upward travel by about half and it should smooth it out quite a bit. It will take some experimenting, but you will get it. Truth is I am not as smooth as I used to be. My eyes are shot.

    I will have to get someone to take a pic of my uphill grip. It is a little different and involves bending the rod, but it works really good for me. I don't have near the normal range of motion in my wrist so I have to compensate

    Leave a comment:


  • man of steel
    replied
    re fun 4 now

    you dont have to clean the slag every rod,if your quick enough changing rods you can burn into your tie in nicely without any inclusions etc(trust me on this and try it out for yourself)itll save you alot of time when you need it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bert
    replied
    ok, but I'll have to break into my dauyghter's piggy bank!!!
    no more dog treats for her!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    by February, I should be starting on the right side of the house
    cool so how about it, you pay the plain fare i'll paint the house for ya, then we can play with the welding stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bert
    replied
    James, remember to save the pic of when you first started! Like night and day!!! Keep it up buddy
    jwsrep...yeah, by February, I should be starting on the right side of the house
    jonnymag=

    Leave a comment:

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