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  • #16
    However I personally think any Yamaha or Honda should be scrapped anyway

    I'll agree with you on the honda they arent worth a **** but I wouldn't use any motor but a yamaha. Not trying to offend you just curious to your reasons for the dislike of yamaha. I trust my life to them on my offshore rig we run 60 plus miles out. I have also had the mercury outboard which caught on fire 18 miles offshore. My duck duck hunting rig and small privateer center con also run yamaha and they are abuse to say the least.

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    • #17
      However I personally think any Yamaha or Honda should be scrapped anyway

      I'll agree with you on the honda they arent worth a darn but I wouldn't use any motor but a yamaha. Not trying to offend you just curious to your reasons for the dislike of yamaha. I trust my life to them on my offshore rig we run 60 plus miles out. I have also had the mercury outboard which caught on fire 18 miles offshore. My duck duck hunting rig and small privateer center con also run yamaha and they are abuse to say the least.

      Why didn't my quote go inside the nice little blue box

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Agcadmin1 View Post
        However I personally think any Yamaha or Honda should be scrapped anyway

        I'll agree with you on the honda they arent worth a darn but I wouldn't use any motor but a yamaha. Not trying to offend you just curious to your reasons for the dislike of yamaha. I trust my life to them on my offshore rig we run 60 plus miles out. I have also had the mercury outboard which caught on fire 18 miles offshore. My duck duck hunting rig and small privateer center con also run yamaha and they are abuse to say the least.

        Why didn't my quote go inside the nice little blue box
        You didnt leave the command code. ( [/QUOTE] etc.).
        Anyway back to the outboards, the history of outboards is kind of interesting. How all the companies were connected, the business aggreements etc. Anyway the basis on my feelings towards yamaha is primarily from my experience when the company I work for bought their engines or powerheads. The alloys used in the castings arent nealy as good as others, the basic engine design is more automotive and lacks durability. The gearcases are probably the worst for durability. I really cant tell you specifics...not that I dont know, I just cant tell. BTW what merc was it that "caught fire"? What model and how long ago?
        "Better Metalworking Through Research"

        Miller Dynasty 300DX
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Agcadmin1 View Post
          However I personally think any Yamaha or Honda should be scrapped anyway

          I'll agree with you on the honda they arent worth a darn but I wouldn't use any motor but a yamaha. Not trying to offend you just curious to your reasons for the dislike of yamaha. I trust my life to them on my offshore rig we run 60 plus miles out. I have also had the mercury outboard which caught on fire 18 miles offshore. My duck duck hunting rig and small privateer center con also run yamaha and they are abuse to say the least.

          Why didn't my quote go inside the nice little blue box


          Well knocking Yamaha and putting Mercury on a pedestal is sorta tongue in cheek anyhow when you consider how much old Merc outboard stuff was made by Yamaha in the first place. I'm sure Aaron knew this and was just trying to get a rise out of everyone.
          As for Yamaha I just hate their dealership program and the outrageous cost of their parts. I'm more of an Evinrude lover myself and am growing fonder of Suzuki.
          As for weldability.....they all weld fine. I think the old Evinrude/Johnsons have the worst castings of anyone tho hands down! (lots of voids)

          BTW, LA Weld, how much gap did you leave between your pieces? I usually go with somewhere around 1/4 to 3/16ths.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
            Well knocking Yamaha and putting Mercury on a pedestal is sorta tongue in cheek anyhow when you consider how much old Merc outboard stuff was made by Yamaha in the first place. I'm sure Aaron knew this and was just trying to get a rise out of everyone.
            As for Yamaha I just hate their dealership program and the outrageous cost of their parts. I'm more of an Evinrude lover myself and am growing fonder of Suzuki.
            As for weldability.....they all weld fine. I think the old Evinrude/Johnsons have the worst castings of anyone tho hands down! (lots of voids)

            BTW, LA Weld, how much gap did you leave between your pieces? I usually go with somewhere around 1/4 to 3/16ths.

            FK,
            The only engines merc bought from yamaha were the early 9.9/15 , early 115 and early 225. In fact the 9.9/15 was a joint venture, with the powerheads actually built by merc FOR yamaha. There is more to the story then anyone outside of the companies knows. Anyway this is getting off topic
            "Better Metalworking Through Research"

            Miller Dynasty 300DX
            Miller Dynasty 200DX
            Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
            Miller Millermatic Passport

            Miller Spot Welder
            Motor-Guard stud welder

            Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Aerometalworker View Post
              FK,
              There is more to the story then anyone outside of the companies knows. Anyway this is getting off topic
              I know more about this subject than most folks...

              And I agree...way off topic

              www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
              Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
              MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
              Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
              Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

              Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
              Miller 30-A Spoolgun
              Miller WC-115-A
              Miller Spectrum 300
              Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
              Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

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              • #22
                I left a 1/8 gap with 45 degree bevel on both sides.

                This was a recommendation from Mercury Performance that provided the replacement piece.

                I did leave as much of the original structure, so I did not follow the recommendations to the letter. Mercury Performance wants you to cut down to the housing. I don't like that and feel it would guarantee a catastrophic failure if the lower unit was to be damaged again. My thinking is the machined part would rip the housing as to its material strength.
                The weakest link being the casting, so you can follow my thought.

                Craig, here is a coupon from many many years ago. It was a training piece I did when I finally felt I could do it. It reminds me of where I came from and the GOOD OLD DAYS PAST!
                I gotta say, I was way to full of it then. How owning your own and growing up has it drawbacks...

                Good luck, just be patient.
                Attached Files

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                • #23
                  The mercury I had catch on fire was a verado five years ago. Motor had 500 some hours on it. It had an electrical short somewhere in the motor I suppose
                  did quite a bit of damage to the wiring harness and burnt the hood on the outboard up bad. As for the difference in the castings on the lowers of yamahas I have absolutely no idea what the specs are. i know there a great motors and very durable in my opinion. My regulator has 1500 hours on my four strokes with no problems.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by LA Weld View Post
                    I left a 1/8 gap with 45 degree bevel on both sides.

                    This was a recommendation from Mercury Performance that provided the replacement piece.

                    I did leave as much of the original structure, so I did not follow the recommendations to the letter. Mercury Performance wants you to cut down to the housing. I don't like that and feel it would guarantee a catastrophic failure if the lower unit was to be damaged again. My thinking is the machined part would rip the housing as to its material strength.
                    The weakest link being the casting, so you can follow my thought.
                    Sounds like it worked out well (Nice work btw) That is pretty much how I do it as well.
                    I never much cared to cut off the remaining skeg either.
                    I have repaired about as many poorly welded skegs as freshly damaged ones it seems sometimes. They seldom have 100% penetration and are always welded/spliced in a straight line. Sometimes you have no choice tho.

                    www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                    Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                    MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                    Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                    Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                    Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                    Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                    Miller WC-115-A
                    Miller Spectrum 300
                    Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                    Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by LA Weld View Post
                      The gear oil is Synthetic and the area that is exposed to heat is far enough away that a soaked rag is placed there to monitor and keep the temp in check. It never gets hot enough to steam, therfore less than 210 degrees.
                      I meant to comment on this. Last summer, I took my dual sport Suzuki DR650 for a jeep road ride. Oil temp hit 272*. I was glad to be running synthetics. No steam, <210*, is a good thing.

                      Originally posted by LA Weld View Post
                      It is actually a fun repair as long as you are taking your time and have a good fit up. The bevel is a key component for the strength and if the customer does it again it will break on the edge.
                      Fun fixes are on practice stuff. When a real repair shows up; things get serious.

                      Originally posted by Ultrachop View Post
                      Craig,
                      I hope us "ole" guys don't cause the youngen's to loose hope thinking they will be as old as us and still can't weld!!
                      The youngen's have stuff we never dreamed of. WAIT a MINUTE; you have stuff I never dreamed of. :P
                      Originally posted by Ultrachop View Post
                      In truth with the help of a newly aquired friend that is a retired boilermaker/pipe welder I am gaining confidence daily!
                      Cheater :P
                      Originally posted by Ultrachop View Post
                      funny yesterday I ran a bunch of SS and he said they would no problem pass cert test (great encouragent to say the least)
                      Congratulations, thumbs up smilie here.
                      Originally posted by Ultrachop View Post
                      I then did some Mig beads (on your 252) that I haven't found a suitable box to ship it in)
                      It doesn't need a box. Just put an address label on the handle to "Craig in Denver"; it'll get here. =-)
                      Originally posted by Ultrachop View Post
                      then ran a 1/8" fillet weld on AL and darned if it didn't look too bad!! (there is a God) and he held the torch today)
                      If'n you used that 252 fer an 1/8" fillet, did you use a spoolgun or run it thru the xx foot mig torch?? If'n you did, you have no use for that Dynasty. And it'll fit in a smaller box. :P

                      Originally posted by Ultrachop View Post
                      I will post a few progress photos as soon as I set up some "fresh coupons" Tim
                      Rubbin' it in, eh? =)

                      Originally posted by LA Weld View Post
                      I did leave as much of the original structure, so I did not follow the recommendations to the letter. Mercury Performance wants you to cut down to the housing. I don't like that and feel it would guarantee a catastrophic failure if the lower unit was to be damaged again. My thinking is the machined part would rip the housing as to its material strength.
                      The weakest link being the casting, so you can follow my thought.
                      Thank you, hopefully I remembered this. :P

                      Originally posted by LA Weld View Post
                      Craig, here is a coupon from many many years ago. It was a training piece I did when I finally felt I could do it. It reminds me of where I came from and the GOOD OLD DAYS PAST!
                      I gotta say, I was way to full of it then. How owning your own and growing up has it drawbacks...

                      Good luck, just be patient.
                      PATIENCE?!?! I don't have time for patience; I'm over 60!! It's funny to see someone else has evidence of their progression. A big part of classes is repetition; if I can't do it AGAIN, I'm not good enough!! You may have been full of it, but you didn't bring it here: thank you. Growing up sucks, waking up after my 60 something birthday; REALLY sucks. I suppose it's better than the alternative.

                      Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
                      (Nice work btw) That is pretty much how I do it as well.
                      I never much cared to cut off the remaining skeg either.
                      I have repaired about as many poorly welded skegs as freshly damaged ones it seems sometimes. They seldom have 100% penetration and are always welded/spliced in a straight line.(
                      Keep it coming, I think I get smarter with everyone else's posts. =)
                      Last edited by Craig in Denver; 03-07-2009, 04:38 PM.
                      RETIRED desk jockey.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Agcadmin1 View Post
                        The mercury I had catch on fire was a verado five years ago. Motor had 500 some hours on it. It had an electrical short somewhere in the motor I suppose
                        did quite a bit of damage to the wiring harness and burnt the hood on the outboard up bad. As for the difference in the castings on the lowers of yamahas I have absolutely no idea what the specs are. i know there a great motors and very durable in my opinion. My regulator has 1500 hours on my four strokes with no problems.
                        Odd,
                        You must have had a 2005 model year engine, and since it was 5 years ago it was under warranty. So Mercury replaced it right? If so what was the warranty request number, engine serial number, or?? Id like to track it. I see a lot of times where people like to "bash" a brand, and make up false stories about them, unless you give me more information im assuming this is one of those cases.

                        FusionKing, you may know something about mercs....but im betting I know a bit more
                        Last edited by Aerometalworker; 03-06-2009, 06:46 PM.
                        "Better Metalworking Through Research"

                        Miller Dynasty 300DX
                        Miller Dynasty 200DX
                        Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
                        Miller Millermatic Passport

                        Miller Spot Welder
                        Motor-Guard stud welder

                        Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

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                        • #27
                          Im guessing there was no fire, I cant find a record of a failure like that in the field EVER with a 6 cylinder Verado. Give me a serial number and prove me wrong, otherwise im calling your bluff.
                          -Aaron

                          P.S. welded skegs are never as strong as the original as you lose the heat treat in the aluminum from welding. Normally the welded on Skegs I find are not put on with the right geometry. Not too critical on a slow boat, but on something faster like a Bass boat it can really casue some dangerous handling issues. Ive got jigs to hold mine to the correct offset for each model.
                          "Better Metalworking Through Research"

                          Miller Dynasty 300DX
                          Miller Dynasty 200DX
                          Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
                          Miller Millermatic Passport

                          Miller Spot Welder
                          Motor-Guard stud welder

                          Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Aerometalworker View Post

                            FusionKing, you may know something about mercs....but im betting I know a bit more
                            I am sure you do Aaron I knew I would get you going with that statement.

                            Originally posted by Aerometalworker View Post
                            welded skegs are never as strong as the original as you lose the heat treat in the aluminum from welding. Normally the welded on Skegs I find are not put on with the right geometry. Not too critical on a slow boat, but on something faster like a Bass boat it can really casue some dangerous handling issues. Ive got jigs to hold mine to the correct offset for each model.
                            I would really love to see some of that stuff (fixtures) I have done some that were a He!! of a lot faster than most bass boats!! I have thought a great deal about fixtures myself.
                            I would simply like to know what the correct offset is for differents models
                            I don't doubt one bit that there are better ways to weld these than I am doing. BUT...I do have a VERY steady steam of them coming to me on a regular basis and am very interested on any and all info to improve my methods

                            www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                            Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                            MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                            Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                            Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                            Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                            Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                            Miller WC-115-A
                            Miller Spectrum 300
                            Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                            Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
                              I am sure you do Aaron I knew I would get you going with that statement.



                              I would really love to see some of that stuff (fixtures) I have done some that were a He!! of a lot faster than most bass boats!! I have thought a great deal about fixtures myself.
                              I would simply like to know what the correct offset is for differents models
                              I don't doubt one bit that there are better ways to weld these than I am doing. BUT...I do have a VERY steady steam of them coming to me on a regular basis and am very interested on any and all info to improve my methods
                              FK,
                              he he yeah, if only I got fired up that easily. Really the only thing that bothers me is when people spread lies and stories about something I worked on, and they have little knowledge of. Hmmmm basicly my fixture holds the nose cone in a tapered cup, the prop shaft with a center. and an adjustable Vee block holds the drive shaft. The Alignment of the skeg is referenced from the imaginary line connecting the cup and center ( which are interchangeable to weld both sides after flipping the case ). Hmm I think we used to have a chart we gave to the repair shops that gave the offset in degrees, let me see if I can get an electronic version. You would probably get a kick out of our hydrodynamics testing with the high speed underwater cameras. I will also check and see if I can send a picture of the fixture, I dont see why not but since its engineering related I have to get approval.
                              "Better Metalworking Through Research"

                              Miller Dynasty 300DX
                              Miller Dynasty 200DX
                              Miller Spectrum 375 extreme
                              Miller Millermatic Passport

                              Miller Spot Welder
                              Motor-Guard stud welder

                              Smith, Meco, Oxweld , Cronatron, Harris, Victor, National, Prest-o-weld, Prest-o-lite, Marquette, Century Aircraft, Craftsman, Goss, Uniweld, Purox, Linde, Eutectic, and Dillon welding torches from 1909 to Present. (58 total)

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                              • #30
                                Craig,

                                You have darn near got me humbled enough to ship off the MM252 to you (I know the UPS guy pretty well and he has a tow hook on the back of his "brown truck" that I could half hitch the ground lead to and he could just tow it to Denver?? what ya think? By the way you have to be the best at "quote, paste", quote, paste" around!!

                                No I didn't Mig the AL coupon I actually ran two 7" tig fillets without screwing up to bad--Can't afford a spool gun and besides I haven't gotten a smoke evacuator for my little shop yet (wife and the Stock market have me on a short leash!)

                                FK and Aerometalworker, Both you guys are a great source of information and wisdom for us "ole" Newbie tig welders and I for one am truly humbled by the art form that you guys make of this process.

                                Tim (just slightly younger then Craig!)
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