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  • bert/tig kit

    Hi guys and girls
    Went back and got the contractor's kit for my Dynasty 200DX. Later I'll get the water-cooled torch and the coolmate 3 (when $ allows)... They ran out of the 5356 rods, so I got the 4043 rods at 1/16 and 3/32. Tungsten is 3/32 ceriated/orange band (expensive!) Gonna practice with some 1/8" aluminum and see how it goes. I was gonna try cfm @20-25.
    Any advice/tips?
    thanks a lot
    bert
    I'm not late...
    I'm just on Hawaiian Time

  • #2
    Oh, I have some 3/32" aluminum sheet I'm gonna cut coupons out of and start practicing with those...Any tips on gas flow (using 100% argon) or anything else, let me know!
    thanks,
    bert
    I'm not late...
    I'm just on Hawaiian Time

    Comment


    • #3
      Any advice/tips?

      Bert, my best advice would be for you to send your new toys here to me, you know, so I can check them out for you and make sure they are working proper like,and then I will send you back some pictures of how it should be done.
      Dave
      If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!

      sigpicJohn Blewett III 10-22-73 to 8-16-07
      Another racing great gone but not to be forgotten.http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...modified&hl=en

      Comment


      • #4
        Deliver to you now!

        well, with your experience, I might just do that!!!
        NOT!!!
        I'm not late...
        I'm just on Hawaiian Time

        Comment


        • #5
          Gas pressure & tungstens

          Originally posted by Bert View Post
          Hi guys and girls
          Went back and got the contractor's kit for my Dynasty 200DX. Later I'll get the water-cooled torch and the coolmate 3 (when $ allows)... They ran out of the 5356 rods, so I got the 4043 rods at 1/16 and 3/32. Tungsten is 3/32 ceriated/orange band (expensive!) Gonna practice with some 1/8" aluminum and see how it goes. I was gonna try cfm @20-25.
          Any advice/tips?
          thanks a lot
          bert
          I like to run closer to 20 psi on the flowmeter. If the pressure is too high it will create turbulance and actually pull oxygen into the arc, which is bad for business.

          Speaking of turbulance reduction, I also recommend using a gas lens. It has a similar function to the areator in a faucet. If you ever remove an areator and turn on the water you see how random the flow is. After replacing the areator the water flows out in a nice steady column. This is exactly what a gas lens does with the gas flow around your TIG arc.

          If you are going to weld thin material, you might want to consider going with 1/16 tungsten electrodes (or smaller). Try to get away with as small a tunsgten as possible, to keep the arc small and focused as possible.

          When it comes to flavors of tungsten, like sports teams, everyone seems to find one they like over others. My advice is to try different ones on different metals. I avoid Thoriated due to its radioactive nature. (Sharpening puts it in the air, as does vaporizing during an arc, which can go in the lungs. No thanks.) After my own "experiments", I found that Zirconiated works best (for me) on Aluminum. The arc stays clear and the bead is consistent. For mild steel and stainless I like Lanthinated. However, I have heard that tungstens behave differently on an inverter machine (like your Dynasty) vs. one of the old school transformer rigs like they run at my welding class at college. Again, try different ones and see how they work for YOU on YOUR machine.

          As you know, you generally have to purchase electrodes by the box of 10. I found a company that will send FREE samples of various types and sizes of tungsten.
          http://www.diamondground.com/freesample.html
          It helped me in my experiments without the need to buy a whole box. Just know that a salesguy will call to see how the tungsten worked for you, and to see if you want to order more. As long as you are polite, they will send more free samples. Sure beats spending $30+ for a box for each flavor of tungsten as an experiment.

          Holding the TIG rod is half the battle, since the rod needs to be at the right place at the right time. Training your hand to feed the rod takes lots of practice and time. I found a way to "cheat". I use a "TIG Pen" to hold the rod.
          http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/we...t/TP1550a.html
          Some guys thing it is a gimic or lazy, but I LOVE it. It is especially useful when welding aluminum since the stuff melts like butter and the rod needs to be feed at a high rate, constently.
          Dynasty 200 DX
          Coolmate 3

          Comment


          • #6
            Bert,
            If you're welding inside where wind or fans aren't a problem, you might be able to get your Argon flow down to 15cfm...this could save you $$$ in the long run. When I'm outside I'll run as high as 25, but only rarely (I've found that if I need to run 25cfm, it's better to just wait til the wind dies down...otherwise your welds end up looking like doo-doo.). Yesterday I ran my Ar at 10cfm for a while just to see how it would work with my new WC9FV torch with gas lens setup...it worked okay but I liked the flow of my puddle better when I went back up to 15 (I was working in a covered-but-open carport with zero wind speed).

            Unless you're going to work on super-thin sheet, I'd stick with 3/32" tungsten and a 9-series torch. Go ahead and spring for the gas lens setup as soon as you can afford to spend $15 to $20 for the different parts (you can actually get one cup, one collet, and one diffuser for under $10 but I'd recommend getting several different size cups while you're at your LWS).

            Maybe, if you're nice, you can post some pictures of your trial work and (politely!) ask SundownIII to critique them for you.
            sigpic
            Clint Baxley
            Baxley Welding Service
            Rembert, SC 29128

            Comment


            • #7
              Also...As Far As Filler Rod Size Goes:

              Bert,
              Stick with your 1/16" filler rods to begin with...unless you're planning on filling in holes, your 1/16" 4043 filler will do everything you want for now. Definitely pick up some 1/16" 5356 filler when your LWS gets it in stock.
              ~Clint
              sigpic
              Clint Baxley
              Baxley Welding Service
              Rembert, SC 29128

              Comment


              • #8
                sounds like you have it going ok. i would recommend you try out 2% lanthanated when you go to get some new tung. though. of have diamond ground send you out a few free samples. i found the 2% to hold its point much better.
                as for the tip grind it to a point at about 30% and then put a small flat spot on the end.(see pic)
                also don't get all freaked out trying to use all the controls on the dyn. stick to the basics wile learning. you can add pules and mess with the frequency later to see how you like the effects when you can tell the difference.
                keep the puddle as hot as you can without blowing threw and add your filler to the leading edge of the puddle at about a 15% angel. also you will find aluminum needs more filler than steel so go ahead and push some rod in there instead of just a little dab. i found working on the vertical to really help me see the puddle and how its acting as well as how the torch pulls it around.
                don't get frustrated, if its getting to you stop and do some thing else for a wile and come back to it. you are not likely to learn anything when you are pizzed off at it. you might try running a few beads across the top without separate pieces to just see how every thing moves. so don't worry about joining 2 pieces right away, just play on the top of one for a little bit to see how every thing feels and act's.
                when you do start trying to join 2 pieces, i found you have to get the filler in there fast. when you start the puddle on the 2 pieces will try to pull away from each other like to magnets pushing. so get it started and add a little filler as soon as you see the puddle forming, the filler will bridge the gap and join the 2 puddles together. after that its all purity much the same as running a bead on the top, except you need more filler.
                a SS wire brush is a bit must have. use it just before you start the bead. aluminum reforms its oxide layer right away so you have to hit it just before you weld. don't try brushing all the coupons or pieces ahead of time then sit down to weld all day. i have a 3.5" SS wire cup brush i use just before welding, not with the grinder but by hand. its got a lot of small closely spaced bristles that do a great job for last minuit clean up. if you do use some thing like that on a 4.5" grinder be careful it will take the aluminum off fast. so be careful not to remove too much. if you can find it a small SS toothbrush type would also be nice.
                just remember it has to be SS and never use it for amy thing but aluminum. keep all your aluminum cleaning and cutting tools separate from the ones used for steel.
                i also found that using wax when cutting of using a sanding flap disk to really help. bee's wax is recommended but you can steel one of the wife's candles if ya need to, just don't let her catch ya.
                also find a small project you can do. i built an aluminum cart for my welder. just doing coupons will get old fast and is not going to teach you as much as having to work on something that wont lay flat for you. it will also give you a bigger gaol to reach, some thing you can see results from. yes i put down a few bad beads on my cart, even had to grind out and replace some pieces. but in the end i got several things out of it i would never have gotten from doing coupons.
                i got a cart for one, but i also got practice welding in all sorts of positions. standing, sitting, bending over, twisting threw, even a few upside down. also got some practice fixing stuff and finding ways to prevent recurrences of those problems. and when it was all done i had a great scenes of pride in having made a great cart.


                take this advice with the knowledge i am still new to TIG so it may not be the answer for you but worked well for me. some of it may also be stuff you already know.
                i hope some of it may be of some help to ya though.
                Attached Files
                thanks for the help
                ......or..........
                hope i helped
                sigpic
                feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                JAMES

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bert:

                  The small (toothbrush sized) stainless steel scratch brushes that James mentioned. W. W. Grainger. Item No. 3A336 and 3A337. Small SS scratch brushes. 3A336 is a curved wood handle in a five brush package. 3A337 is plastic handle in a five brush package. I prefer the wood handle for obvious reasons - hot aluminum melts plastic. They work really well for getting down right into the area of the weld bead just prior to starting.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Bert,

                    You've gotten some good advice here, consequently I didn't chime in. I personally have had good luck with the 2% Lanthanated tungstens with the inverter machines. As Clint said, you will like the gas lens.

                    Once you get past the basic "coupon" stage, you may want to practice welding aluminum pipe to your coupons. If you have any marine fabricators nearby, you can probably pick up a handfull of cutoffs for nothing. (Heck, if you were closer, I'd give you a box to play with). Doing this will help with torch manipulation and get you used to working "out of position".

                    Clint,

                    Glad to hear you like the gas lens. Do appreciate the comments but think you may overestimate my expertise. I just happen to have a good deal of experience in the field you're working in (marine fabrication). I've had the good fortune to be around some of the best in the business, but, as I said before, I don't put myself in their league. We've got a few guys on this board (KB, Engloid, etc) whose expertise far exceeds my own. I've found them to be a great source of information.

                    That's what makes this board great. Experienced people willing to share their experience with those on their way up the learning curve. Just a shame that we have to wade through so much BS and bad information at times to get to the "good stuff".
                    Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                    Dynasty 200 DX
                    Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                    Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                    Hobart HH187
                    Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                    Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                    Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                    PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                    Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                    Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                    More grinders than hands

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Taking your advice

                      **WARNING** LONG POST AHEAD *** Please grab a snack and a beer***

                      AWSOME GUYS !!!!
                      Well, I'm not new to tig aluminum, I think I'm pretty good at it when it comes to doing 2x3" coupons But doing stuff in the "real world"/real project stuff seems to be another monster for me (different hand/body positions, etc). Never used a inverter machine before except at the Lincoln tent sales where they have 2 hour classes on a lot of things (I wish Gaspro did that! hint hint..). Practicing on the same size coupone over and over,I got pretty good at it, although now I might get feedback "bead too high, ripples not close enough, etc, that's what I come on this forum for...feedback!!! I have to do some painting on dad's house today and meet some perspective people to buy my boat trailer, so I can't weld till next week.

                      Samurai Dave:
                      asked for the gas lens (saw it and think it's awsome!!!) but they didn't have any in stock! Thanks for the tip/link on diamondground! Pen rod looks interesting, I guess you just start out with about 6-8" sticking out the front of the pen? Is it that much different than holding the rod in your hand, 'cept it's a little fatter handle? Tungsten is $46.69!!! (think it was $41 on sale)

                      Clint: ok, cool. I'll try to start with 15cfm. The contractor's pkg came with 3 different cups and collets: cups have no #'s on them, collets:.040,1/16 and 3/32. Comes with 3 pieces of tungsten all ceriated (red band) 1 of each size.
                      There's another 3/32" setup in the torch also. Torch is a WP17 Weldcraft flex head (well, it flexes now ) How's that compare with the series 9 torches? I'll try IOC for the diffuser lens.

                      James:I'll try lanthanated through diamond ground, but isn't your machine NOT and inverter? Finding out inv vs. non-inv use different tungstens.
                      I USED to do good at coupons..."lap,corner,t...lap,corner,t...lap,corne r,t"
                      is all we practiced...ok, well it's been a couple years. Stainless brush and all the hand tools I got covered. I just need time after dad's house is painted
                      I'm not late...
                      I'm just on Hawaiian Time

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        practice pipe

                        Sundown and Clint,
                        btw, I can get some alum. tubing/pipe to play with, but all the clean scrap I pick up is all anodized alum. I'm guessing to just hit it with a flap wheel first?
                        which flap wheel so I don't get more cr*p inside?
                        I'm not late...
                        I'm just on Hawaiian Time

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bert,

                          Don't worry about the anodizing. Just crank up the amps a little and I think you'll see that it burns right out. The anodizing, in many ways, is easier to deal with than non-anodized which has a lot of oxidation. If the material is otherwise clean, just have a go at it and let me know what you think.

                          Just thought it'd be a little more helpful "welding in circles".
                          Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                          Dynasty 200 DX
                          Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                          Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                          Hobart HH187
                          Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                          Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                          Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                          PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                          Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                          Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                          More grinders than hands

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It seems that things have been pretty well covered, but I figured that I would chime in if for no other reason than to increase my post count .

                            It has been metioned several times already, but I throw in my recommendation for 2% Lanthinated tungsten. I haven't looked back after trying it out on aluminum. Ceriated worked great on mild steal but I think that you will find yourself regrinding it quite frequently when working with aluminum. Also, I would suggest purchasing your tungsten online - you can usually find much better deals. Tungsten at our LWS is about 2.5x more than it is online.

                            Higher frequencies are your friend when doing fillet welds (apparently this is one of the great advantages of inverters over transformers). I recently decided to do some destructive testing of some of my nicer looking welds and was surprised to find zero root pentration. I was using 130Hz (started out using 160Hz but dropped it down to 130Hz for unkown reasons ) but after doing a little more reading I think I am going to try pushing it to 180-200Hz. The weld crossections looked good, but after bending the pieces at the weld it became quite obvious that there was no fusion at the root. The welds still held quite well (no cracking), and I think that they would hold up for my purposes.

                            My father and I are about to take our limited welding skill and attempt to build a cart similar to the on pictured here: http://www.millerwelds.com/interests...nd-the-shop/9/
                            But, instead of holding the contractors kit we want to build in some drawers for holding misc. tools, consumables, etc. We also plan on adding bracket to hold a small argon tank on the bottom (tank would be laying down in front of the wheels).
                            Last edited by grumpy42; 08-05-2007, 02:49 PM.
                            Dynasty 200DX
                            MM252 w/ Spoolmatic 30A
                            Spectrum 675

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Bert:

                              That seems quite high for tungsten. Have you used Arc-Zone.com? www.arc-zone.com

                              Weldcraft Brand Tungsten. Packages of ten electrodes. Price is the same for Ceriated, 1.5% Lanthanated, or their "Rare Earth". The Rare Earth was supposedly developed in cahoots with Miller to be the best "all around" tungsten for inverter machines. I have no experience with it.

                              Prices for packs of ten electrodes:

                              .040 - $ 5.41
                              1/16 - 9.26
                              3/32 - 20.80
                              1/8 - 36.94

                              I buy my tungstens from them, and all of my Weldcraft Torch supplies, gas lenses, etc. Decent prices. Fast shipping and some extremely helpful folks. Free shipping on orders over fifty dollars although I don't know if that would include orders to Hawaii.

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