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  • Help With CWB Bend test GMAW

    Hi I am currently in a welding school. I have my all Position CWB STick and flux core flat ticket and am going to test for my MIG Flat position in 2 weeks.

    thing is that my instructors say that there is a 85% fail rate for this process. They teach the push teqhnique in school, but i have read that there is better penetration when u pull. Only downfall that i can see is you cant see joint as good as cup is in way. I am thinking about doing the pull but they insist that push is the way to go. I heard the CWB inspector suggest that they try the pull as well so I am kinda torn between what to do on my test.

    Has anyone here done a CWB or AWA flat GMAW bend test and if so what method did you use.

    Thx for ur time and any answers
    Last edited by Smokey_; 07-29-2007, 06:26 AM. Reason: forgot something

  • #2
    I'm CWB cert. 2G unlimited thickness (horizonal groove weld) I pushed -use almost no lead angle vertually 90 degree perpendicular. The thing that had me sweating was that the Inspector told me to weld 1 -1/5 mm then stop and restart this was at the 1st bead of the root then on the 2nd (while I was in process of welding the

    inspector told me to stop and restart 1 -1/2 mm from the end. the remainder of the fill and Cap passes were continuous. the watching them prepare the bend specimens I notice the 2 bends were cut at the location that the stops and restarts. I was sweating but it passed . Other than the specified dimensions on the root pass stop and start location the CWB welder qualification test was the same as all the AWS, API, and AMSE test that I taken extept that the filler metal listed was different I welded with ER70S-6 but the Cert. card I got said ER480S-X.
    If you can weld don't sweat it, man just do as your Inspector asks. Good luck
    Martin
    Welding Technician
    AWS Certified Welding Inspector
    AWS Certified Welding Educator
    ASNT ACCP Level II VT/GI/D
    www.linkedin.com/pub/martin-cramer/20/b36/940/

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    • #3
      CWB Testing

      90 Deg to the work piece or very slight pull about 10 Deg.
      Stick out 3/8".You already know why the stop and starts.
      Are you testing on 1/4" or 3/8" ?
      With 1/4" you wil be in short circut if 3/8"you might be in spray.

      with your CWB you have two plates 3/8" or 1/4" one has a 37 DEG bevel and the other is flat with a half inch gap between them right.
      Then there is a 3/8 backing strip that must be gouged off after your done welding right.

      What I don't get is where does the root come into play here.

      I'm not trying to be a smart azz;! I finished school in sept 06 and maybe they have changed things since I have been gone thats all.

      Your first pass I would call that your first fillet pass.If your doing roots and calling that your first pass then this is a different cat all together.Then you must be 90Deg to the work piece or 10 Deg pushing.This is short circut;After the root then you can turn up the heat and finish the piece.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Darmik View Post
        90 Deg to the work piece or very slight pull about 10 Deg.
        Stick out 3/8".You already know why the stop and starts.
        Are you testing on 1/4" or 3/8" ?
        With 1/4" you wil be in short circut if 3/8"you might be in spray.

        with your CWB you have two plates 3/8" or 1/4" one has a 37 DEG bevel and the other is flat with a half inch gap between them right.
        Then there is a 3/8 backing strip that must be gouged off after your done welding right.

        What I don't get is where does the root come into play here.

        I'm not trying to be a smart azz;! I finished school in sept 06 and maybe they have changed things since I have been gone thats all.

        Your first pass I would call that your first fillet pass.If your doing roots and calling that your first pass then this is a different cat all together.Then you must be 90Deg to the work piece or 10 Deg pushing.This is short circut;After the root then you can turn up the heat and finish the piece.
        Hi thx for reply, im doing test on 3/8 metal with flare bevel with half inch space inbetween in flat position like u said. No spray or short circut just normal mig welds. There is two start stops, one on first root on 90 degree then anouther on weave on bevel. Thing im not sure about is weather it is better to push the puddle or to pull on this test. The instructors teach to push (meaning gun angled back behing puddle so u can see puddle in front) but i have read that u get better penetration if u pull like flux core or stick. Also they seem to have a high fail rate at the school 85%+ for this mig tests.

        I see why they teach to push as u get flatter nicer looking beads and u can see better but im not interseted in looks for this test i want best penetration so it doesnt fail when they bend it.

        Also we do 45 degree on first pass on 90 degree side of plate with 10-15 degree travel angle push although i think im going to pull it instead for this pass. Has anyone done this test like this??

        Thx for all your answers i apreciate your help.

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        • #5
          Hello all im new here but i think i can help. I just did my CWB S ticket for GMAW back in march and from what i can remember my main problems was getting root penetration. We were using .035 solid wire on 3/8 plate with a 1/4" backing plate. One had a 90deg. face and the other a 37 deg bevel. So for my flat to get good penetration i remember running my machine at about 29 volts and 500 wire speed to get a spray transfer. i also pulled the root passes to get good penetration, and then for the final cap passes i pushed to get a nice flat bead, because our instructor told us that if the welds were kinda hokey lookin the inspector could fail us on apperance even before the bend. And when it comes to your stop and starts once you hit the mark where your supposed to stop, let ur finger off that trigger cause if you let the end of the weld build up when you restart your gonna have cold lap and then it will for sure crack.

          I hope this was helpful

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          • #6
            CWB Test

            With the first pic this is what you are doing then right?This is called a BUTT joint CWB test no roots. I just through this together but the backing plate should be 3/8" not 1/4" okay.anyway the second pic is a CWB fillet on 3/8 plate MUST be no smaller than 1/4' on this one I did about 5 to 10 Deg pull.
            Now flare bevels is done differently what you are looking for is at least 1/2" buildup.I will take pics tomorrow of a flare bevel CWB test and post for ya its better if we are on the same page when we talk okay.but its basicly a 2x2x1/4 square tubing sitting on top of a 3/8" piece of Flat bar and you have to weld the flare bevel.right?
            Attached Files

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Darmik View Post
              With the first pic this is what you are doing then right?This is called a BUTT joint CWB test no roots. I just through this together but the backing plate should be 3/8" not 1/4" okay.anyway the second pic is a CWB fillet on 3/8 plate MUST be no smaller than 1/4' on this one I did about 5 to 10 Deg pull.
              Now flare bevels is done differently what you are looking for is at least 1/2" buildup.I will take pics tomorrow of a flare bevel CWB test and post for ya its better if we are on the same page when we talk okay.but its basicly a 2x2x1/4 square tubing sitting on top of a 3/8" piece of Flat bar and you have to weld the flare bevel.right?

              Thx again for help, that first pic is just same as Flat CWB GMAW test. Not sure if it is officially called a flare bevel but thats what i call iit. Half inch gap inbetween 3/8 metal. Roots are what i call first passes on plate, on 90 degree and on bevel. Seems u do the pull as well on first pass which is what i was looking for. Think this is what i am going to do on my test as i believe this is best penetration. Thx again for any help with this as i really want to pass this test first time as i wont be able to test again for a long time.

              Comment


              • #8
                CWB Test

                With these pics this is a CWB Flare bevel Fillet Weld test.1 pass only.
                What the inspector does is he cuts 2" off each end then does an etch test only.No bending on this test.Is this what you have to do?
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darmik View Post
                  With these pics this is a CWB Flare bevel Fillet Weld test.1 pass only.
                  What the inspector does is he cuts 2" off each end then does an etch test only.No bending on this test.Is this what you have to do?


                  Hi, I wish that was the test im doing. However this is the plate I have to fill here http://www.millerwelds.com/education...4&d=1185756289


                  Two root passes (90 Degree on flare and weave on bevel, then 6 more passes and 4 passes for cap.

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                  • #10
                    Butt Joints

                    Well then your right you want to drag the first pass about 5 to 10 Deg no more than that though.Good luck its all up to what you have been taught.I have learned that what you get taught in school and what you have learned in the real world you take all this information in and you develope your own style which everyone has.

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                    • #11
                      Hey Smokey_

                      I was wondering how everything worked out for ya?

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                      • #12
                        Not sure did that test today as well as my overhead Stick plate as well. They dont cut or bend them till tue/wend which really sucks. Both went ok, some arc problem at start/stop but i think its still fused good.. On my mig everything went good except for on my cap i had a blob of slag or something land in 2nd last beed, he still accepted it as it wasnt bad but still sucked.

                        I just hope that it fused as alot of peaple fail this test. I did the push technique intsead of pulling although i still believe it is better weld if u do.

                        if i pass these two tests ill have my all postion stick, flux core flat, mig flat

                        should be a good start, now to find a job!!

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                        • #13
                          CWB Testing

                          I'm happy for ya.With your stop and starts did you start just behind where you left off then fill up where you stopped then continue on to finish that pass.When you first start they will cut off the first 2" and last 2" of the test piece and throw that away and test the middle.If you feel good about your welding then there is no reason for you not to pass.Fingers are crossed.
                          What type of work are you looking for by the way.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Darmik View Post
                            I'm happy for ya.With your stop and starts did you start just behind where you left off then fill up where you stopped then continue on to finish that pass.When you first start they will cut off the first 2" and last 2" of the test piece and throw that away and test the middle.If you feel good about your welding then there is no reason for you not to pass.Fingers are crossed.
                            What type of work are you looking for by the way.


                            well here in ontario they cut 3/4" off each end then cut into 3 and bend the two startstops on ends out that way, and do a face bend on the other. I Failed the Mig test had about a 8mm crack on 90 degree stop start.

                            However i did pass my overhead SMAW so I have my all position stick and flux core now. I will try the mig again next week althought i am pratcicing the pull teqnique now and am going to try it.

                            As for work, im not really sure, i would like to get into some structural steel work and eventually start doing pipe welding as well. Im stuck in town where i am right now but would like to move in a year to alberta or novascotia.

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                            • #15
                              job

                              where are you doing your tests smokey?are you going through a school?I would like to see the quality of your welds ,iam a welding contractor and am always looking for new talent and i dont mind teaching to bring you up to speed so drop me a line and well talk ,

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