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Need some help. Battering ram.

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  • started a topic Need some help. Battering ram.

    Need some help. Battering ram.

    As some of you know I have been actively involved with a project r&d team. It's a couple friends of mine and the project has gone very well. We're just trying to solve a small issue. On the one end of a 4" box tube there is an open end that needs to be capped. For cost reasons a molded plastic press in type cap was originally used and then there were some issues during testing of it popping out. Now a special epoxy has been used and the epoxy never breaks but the kinetic energy is actually causing the caps to break along the molding/casting reinforcements. They like the idea of welding a diamond plate cap over the end and it looks awesome but in all reality a full corner weld and precies fitment is need to make it look right and that's not very cost efficient. Just wondering if anyone else has any other ideas for a cap that would stay in place. This is an impact device and creates alot of kinetic energy that does some unimagineable things. Anyways.....that's where I'm at for now. Thanks again all. Dave

  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    No problem with the weight. It works flawlessly, the question was just about the tube cap. Dave
    Originally posted by Wacko Welder View Post
    I would add a 3/4" or 1" all thread rod running from the rear of the front plate to an inch short of the open back. Get or build a large "wing nut" with a nylon insert to match the all thread. Now you can add standard weights from an athletic store as needed and secure them all the way forward with a large the nylon insert wing nut. And now you have a reason for the rear to be open.

    Also if you "seal it up", what happens when it gets dropped in a mud puddle or water after the fire department is through dousing the place . . . Remember the last time you tried to get condensate out of a square tube trailer frame without weep holes . . .

    This all thread could also be utilized for a runner to create a slam hammer effect by adding a weight . . .

    I will tell you this, I have worked as a designer & as a technician . . . it can be very frustrating to be the one doing the work to accommodate all the engineering brainstorming . . .

    Steve

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  • Wacko Welder
    replied
    I would add . . .

    I would add a 3/4" or 1" all thread rod running from the rear of the front plate to an inch short of the open back. Get or build a large "wing nut" with a nylon insert to match the all thread. Now you can add standard weights from an athletic store as needed and secure them all the way forward with a large the nylon insert wing nut. And now you have a reason for the rear to be open.

    Also if you "seal it up", what happens when it gets dropped in a mud puddle or water after the fire department is through dousing the place . . . Remember the last time you tried to get condensate out of a square tube trailer frame without weep holes . . .

    This all thread could also be utilized for a runner to create a slam hammer effect by adding a weight . . .

    I will tell you this, I have worked as a designer & as a technician . . . it can be very frustrating to be the one doing the work to accommodate all the engineering brainstorming . . .

    Steve
    Last edited by Wacko Welder; 01-03-2009, 05:18 PM.

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  • Ronjohn1969
    replied
    Door Knocker

    Looked at your ram and I would use a 1" plate on the front. I would also (next Time) install a pipe around the round stock in the hand grip areas so that it rotates in the grip as you swing it. Best weight I found in the past is around 34-37 pounds from what I noticed in the past.

    I've done a little door busting in the past and built the one my county SRT uses here. If I had a picture I would send it.

    It looks good!

    Leave a comment:


  • Grumpy
    replied
    Originally posted by turbo38t View Post
    I want to have some positive feedback to your comments but every comment you have is negative. Are you saying that because a tool is functional that being good looking isn't acceptable? That's what it sounds like. The guys that designed this tool and others are die hard law enforcement officers. They are swat members as well ....live,eat and sleep this stuff. They are also the first to be concerned with product design, testing, improvement etc. And they would always have your back. Just because something works doesn't mean it can't look good too. They pride the function and appearance of their product. (Now I guess your looking for some other words of mine to turn around and post negatively on, eh?) Dave
    Just so you know where I came from I have over 38 years of law enforcement experience. Now my question is what is your real reason asking for advice on this forum? You received numerous suggestions yet . . . oh forget it your mind is already set.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I want to have some positive feedback to your comments but every comment you have is negative. Are you saying that because a tool is functional that being good looking isn't acceptable? That's what it sounds like. The guys that designed this tool and others are die hard law enforcement officers. They are swat members as well ....live,eat and sleep this stuff. They are also the first to be concerned with product design, testing, improvement etc. And they would always have your back. Just because something works doesn't mean it can't look good too. They pride the function and appearance of their product. (Now I guess your looking for some other words of mine to turn around and post negatively on, eh?) Dave
    Originally posted by Grumpy View Post
    Wonder whats more important to the designers and owners of the company--money or lives?

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  • Grumpy
    replied
    Originally posted by turbo38t View Post
    The designers are the people that go in harm's way. They are police and swat members who started the company. Dave
    Wonder whats more important to the designers and owners of the company--money or lives?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    This is a liabilty in my opinion. Changing the design of the unit by adding wait/inserts etc could be a liabilty on the structural side of things. It's designed to be used a certain way and with certain procedures. They gave me a call last night and said the diamond plate cap on the end is the final design. Dave "The open backed feature which is unique to our tool also allows the end user the option of easily adding lead or concrete fill at a later date should your unit require a heavier ram for use in areas with exceptionally heavily reinforced entry points. The mass of our tool is sufficient for the majority of professionals we have consulted, but at [your company] we understand that unique operating environments sometimes require unique tools. Our open backed ram allows the end user to tailor the weight of the tool to his or her exact requirements. For recommendations and instructions on how to add weight to your ram, please see [print a manual or something"

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  • MR.57
    replied
    Marketing solves your problem. How's about this:

    "At [your company] we have listened to the input of the military and law enforcement community in order to make our entry tool as versatile as possible. For this reason we have intentionally left the back of our [combination battering ram/halligan tool thing] unenclosed so it also may serve duty as a munitions carrier in an emergency. The open top also serves as an transport device for removal and safe containment of hot smoke/tear gas grenade containers after training exercises.

    The open backed feature which is unique to our tool also allows the end user the option of easily adding lead or concrete fill at a later date should your unit require a heavier ram for use in areas with exceptionally heavily reinforced entry points. The mass of our tool is sufficient for the majority of professionals we have consulted, but at [your company] we understand that unique operating environments sometimes require unique tools. Our open backed ram allows the end user to tailor the weight of the tool to his or her exact requirements. For recommendations and instructions on how to add weight to your ram, please see [print a manual or something]

    We at [Your company] understand you may not want the flexibility and versatility an open backed ram allows. For this reason we offer "fully welded and enclosed" option at a nominal fee. Simply check this option on your order form and we will add a .125" A36 steel plate to the back of your ram for an additional [$20 sound right?].

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  • 11b
    replied
    You dont like the rubber endcap idea? I am a hut hut and I wouldnt mind that. For one it would cover the sharp edges. We use strykers for breaching too so maybe I am out of it.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    The designers are the people that go in harm's way. They are police and swat members who started the company. Dave
    Originally posted by Grumpy View Post
    There ya go "testing by the designers and testing facilities" NOT by the guys and gals who will go in harms why. If that's not correct your not telling us everything, amigo.

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  • 11b
    replied
    In fact you have seen rubber scope covers right? Just weld a small hook to the top or bottom to hook the rubber strap over to keep it in place,,,,,,then joe hut hut could put something in the tube as a small storage space or increase the weight of the tool for more momentum or less. That could even open you up to sell even more stuff like lead weights....

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  • 11b
    replied
    Hey put a rubber sleeve over it!

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  • Grumpy
    replied
    Originally posted by turbo38t View Post
    . . . after many many hours of testing by the designers and testing facilities. This is where it needs to be. It works VERY efficiently in it's current state. Dave
    There ya go "testing by the designers and testing facilities" NOT by the guys and gals who will go in harms why. If that's not correct your not telling us everything, amigo.

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  • Grumpy
    replied
    Originally posted by turbo38t View Post
    LOL......that's funny. And to the other guy.....it may be for a SWAT tea, but it still has to be cosmetically appealling for the most part. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY wants somethin ugly....LOL
    You are SOOOOO wrong. The best ram we had was designed by the guys using it: 1/2 rail road tie (before preserving ) rope and pipe for handles. Worked real well and didn't cost an arm and leg. And we didn't care what it looked like--it worked.

    In fact IMHO and yea, I know you didn't ask for one but your getting one anyway, the pry hooks are going to be a problem to someone sometime and someone could get injured.

    See that is just the problem: the designers and bean counters really don't care about who's using them--just about the money.

    Well, there is one exception and his name if Richard Davis. If you know who he is then you'll know what he's about.

    Just my 2.

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