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  • #16
    Thanks guys for the comeback guys..........I really want a 210 or a 251
    Nick
    Miller 252 Mig
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    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
    Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
    and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bert View Post
      Also, I heard spray isn't just for thin stuff, it's also great for thicker material, as penetration is really good...comments?
      Due to the higher heat input, the spray transfer arc that your 251 is capable of producing is best on 3/16" and thicker mild steel. Really no need to spray arc anything thinner then this anyway, because as long as the machine is set correctly, an .030 solid wire and C-25 are quite capable of producing very sound welds on 1/8" and thinner.

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      • #18
        Danny, thanks a lot! Will try it this weekend
        I'm not late...
        I'm just on Hawaiian Time

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        • #19
          Danny, is there anything special, different mig tip, etc.? or do you just turn up the heat?
          thanks,
          bert
          I'm not late...
          I'm just on Hawaiian Time

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          • #20
            i think its just the power causing the steel to liquefy sooner rather than when it comes into contact with the steel like in short circuit transfer. same with globular no special equipment consumables needed just the proper setting and gas. gas being a big part in the MM210 as its at the top of its settings to reach spray. not shore about needing it with the 252.
            thanks for the help
            ......or..........
            hope i helped
            sigpic
            feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
            summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
            JAMES

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            • #21
              So if you want to try spraying, you crank up the voltage and change out the bottle? Do you have to switch back to a 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix to go back to regular MIG welding or should you just switch to a 98/2 Argon/Oxygen gas setup for all MIG welding?

              Should you use 98/2 Argon/Oxygen or 90/10 Argon/CO2? I guess I really don't understand the reason behind the different gas mixes and why one is better than the other in certain applications.

              I've always run the typical 75/25 Argon/CO2 gas mix for years, but never tried anything else. I only weld on plain old mild steel.
              Last edited by garybdavis; 07-12-2007, 07:28 AM.
              Millermatic 35
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              Smith & Victor Torches
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              • #22
                Thanks James
                Garybdavis, thanks for the questions! Same ones I have also
                Hope to get a response also
                bert
                I'm not late...
                I'm just on Hawaiian Time

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                • #23
                  the book said it needs an argon rich inviorment to acheave true spry. 90% argon with the remainder being a gas which gives special metal transfer charictoristics, such as oxygen or Co2.
                  as for doing the rest of your welding with it ??? maybee some of the guys that do spray can chime in. might be a price thing to want to go back to C-25 but i dont know??
                  thanks for the help
                  ......or..........
                  hope i helped
                  sigpic
                  feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                  summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                  JAMES

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by garybdavis View Post
                    So if you want to try spraying, you crank up the voltage and change out the bottle? Do you have to switch back to a 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix to go back to regular MIG welding or should you just switch to a 98/2 Argon/Oxygen gas setup for all MIG welding?

                    Should you use 98/2 Argon/Oxygen or 90/10 Argon/CO2? I guess I really don't understand the reason behind the different gas mixes and why one is better than the other in certain applications.

                    I've always run the typical 75/25 Argon/CO2 gas mix for years, but never tried anything else. I only weld on plain old mild steel.
                    Gary, since your unit is a MM 35, stick with the 75/25 you've been using. The MM 35 was designed to be a short circuit transfer unit with COČ or 75/25. It isn't capable of outputting the voltage and amperage needed to be a useful spray arc unit.

                    Here's some info you and Bert might find interesting to read. http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig4_1.htm

                    BTW, for the page on the ESAB site that I have linked, use the arrows at the bottom of the screen to scroll through the different pages.

                    Sorry guys, I own an ESAB Migmaster 250 along with a MM 210, so I visit there website too.

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                    • #25
                      so I visit there website too

                      Sorry guys, I own an ESAB Migmaster 250 along with a MM 210, so I visit there website too.
                      good info is good info no matter where it comes from.
                      thanks for the help
                      ......or..........
                      hope i helped
                      sigpic
                      feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                      summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                      JAMES

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                      • #26
                        Danny, James is right ! Long as the info is all good, doesn't matter which company it comes from. I know a weldor that always bought ESAB plasma cutters. Does all kinds of stuff with it he says others won't.
                        thanks a lot Danny!!!!!!!
                        I'm not late...
                        I'm just on Hawaiian Time

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Danny View Post
                          Gary, since your unit is a MM 35, stick with the 75/25 you've been using. The MM 35 was designed to be a short circuit transfer unit with COČ or 75/25. It isn't capable of outputting the voltage and amperage needed to be a useful spray arc unit.

                          Here's some info you and Bert might find interesting to read. http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig4_1.htm

                          BTW, for the page on the ESAB site that I have linked, use the arrows at the bottom of the screen to scroll through the different pages.

                          Sorry guys, I own an ESAB Migmaster 250 along with a MM 210, so I visit there website too.

                          Danny,

                          Thanks for the link. Good info. I've been looking for a reason to upgrade to a new, shiny welder.
                          Millermatic 35
                          Miller TB302G
                          Ellis 1800
                          Smith & Victor Torches
                          Optrel Satellite
                          Arcair K4000
                          Ingersoll-Rand 175CFM Diesel Air Compressor
                          Home Made Welding Trailer

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                          • #28
                            I always use oxygen instead of co2 for spray unless welding on SS using spray transfer. I generaly try to keep the oxygen content under 10% if possible.

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                            • #29
                              I've been looking for a reason to upgrade to a new, shiny welder
                              your suposed to have a reason to upgrade.
                              dont tell my wife that, you cant beletting that kind of info out on a public forem. you could get a lot of us in truble with the wives with statements like that.
                              aaaaaa, shiny and new, good.
                              thanks for the help
                              ......or..........
                              hope i helped
                              sigpic
                              feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                              summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                              JAMES

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I just wanted to chime in to clear a couple of things up here. Axial Spray transfer is utilizes higher voltage settings with surface tension to achieve several nice results. As we saw earlier, a really nice bead is one result. Also, greater deposition, deaper-more complete penetration, and faster travel speeds are achieved. Due to these factors, with proper tecnique, a smaller HAZ is created also. As elluded to earlier, a sizable machine is needed to push past the globular transfer into spray transfer, and a change in gas is also needed. Spray transfer does need a very rich argon environment, with a theoretical maximum CO2 content on 18%. I assume this is why I see C18 all the time. 2% oxygen is commonly used as a stabalizer in the sheilding gas, but as this is a reactive gas, the amount must be limited. A tri mix of Argon, Helium, and oxygen is common also in various amounts (90,7.5,2.5 etc...) Cost is a factor to consider though, as CO2 is cheaper than other gases. For most hobby weldors, this is not a concern because of the relatively small amounts of sheilding gas used. For large shops and manufacturers, this can be an area of great study to find the most economical gas or mixture for that partucular application. Due to this, some shops are going straight CO2. Even with the added costs of that gas (splatter and cleanup...) it is cheaper in the long run for them. No spray in that case though.

                                Much like spray transfer, pulsed mig uses very high voltage settings. The difference is that the machine cycles between a high voltage and a very low voltage setting. A short circuit method is still used for the actual metal transfer, but with a "cooling" low voltage rest in between. Esentially it is like spot welding 60 or so times a second. This also produces really attractive beads, and a reduced HAZ. Lots of literature is available about pulsed MIG that explains the process very well and every brand says that their's is the best...go figure.

                                I've been away for a while and just read this post. Hope this adds some light on this topic.

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