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  • #61
    Nick,
    Looks interesting so far, I have a feeling its a bit under designed however. I have some drawings of the DH-4 "helivector" and some notes on the development of it. The rotor head is much more complex and robust then your design, and the chain drive might not be a good idea due to driveline harmonics. Belt drive would act as a sort of dampener. The DH-4 was one of the few personal helicopters that actually flew, and it was powered by one of our MK 55 engines of about 50 horse 100% duty cycle.
    -Aaron
    "Better Metalworking Through Research"

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    • #62
      What about the 100cc Yamaha motors used for goart racing. They gotta be upwards of 50 hp. Dave
      Originally posted by monte55 View Post
      Just about anything related with flying is expensive. The prices I've seen for
      some gyros that are small and simple still bring a big price. Same with ultralites. Of course the motors and props are a big part of the bill. Gyro
      rotors are expensive. Rotors like that I wouldn't attempt to build. Smaller rotors and props can be home built.
      This unit I want to build shouldn't be too expensive. The engine will be the
      biggest expense.
      I need a two stroke 30-35 hp range........strong but lightweight. ANYONE
      HAVE AN IDEA WHERE TO FIND AN ENGINE LIKE THIS? Also what size engine in CC equates to this hp . I'm thinking maybe off a dirt bike or the like. I hate to pay for an entire bike just for the engine. Any leads welcome.
      Nick

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Aerometalworker View Post
        Nick,
        Looks interesting so far, I have a feeling its a bit under designed however. I have some drawings of the DH-4 "helivector" and some notes on the development of it. The rotor head is much more complex and robust then your design, and the chain drive might not be a good idea due to driveline harmonics. Belt drive would act as a sort of dampener. The DH-4 was one of the few personal helicopters that actually flew, and it was powered by one of our MK 55 engines of about 50 horse 100% duty cycle.
        -Aaron
        Have you looked at the first post of this thread with youtube video links? It is chain drive, 30 hp 2 stroke water cooled kart engine and fixed pitch ultralite blades for the rotors. I agree a cogged drive belt probably would be better.
        I am using what I have easy access to and am in the prototype stage and testing needs to be done. All constructive input welcome here. It's a fun project. Do you have any links to the DH-4 ?....Nick
        Nick
        Miller 252 Mig
        Miller Cricket XL
        Millermatic 150 Mig
        Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
        2-O/A outfits
        Jet Lathe and Mill
        Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
        DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
        Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
        20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
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        60" X 60" router/plasma table

        www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
        Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
        and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

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        • #64
          Pulse Jet vs Ramjet

          Well I don't know what you googled Turboglen but there is a big difference between a pulse jet and a ramjet. The pulse jet is what the German V1 'buzzbombs" used. There is a valve arrangement at the air intake which rapidly meters air and fuel into the combustion chamber. There used to be a hobby version of this which I remember made a heck of a racket and almost always got so hot that it wound up setting the model plane it was mounted to on fire!

          A Ramjet is simplicity itself. A tube with an open front and a means of metering in a spray of fuel. An igniter. That's all. The advantage is very light weight, very good thrust and no theoretical maximum speed. The faster it goes the more thrust. The problem is how to start the darn thing. You have to get a volume of air moving through it before you can feed in fuel and light it off. The USAF is currently researching a supersonic version - the SCRAMJET.

          On the Hiller Hornet, there were two ramjets mounted to the tips of the rotor blades. As I recall the rotor disk was about 25'. The only tricky part was the rotating seal that connected the fuel line from the tank to the lines running down the rotor blades. To start up the Hornet, you turned a crank by hand (fancier version had electric start). When you had it going good you hit the ignition button and kept cranking until the jets fired. when you had operating speed pulled up on the collective and off you went! It had the usual collective lever but the cyclic was a simple yoke that directly moved the swashplate. The rudder pedals moved an angled fin on the tail. No tail fan was needed as there is only slight counterforce with the ramjets. I was fascinated by this machine when I first saw it in Popular Mechanics magazine in the 1950s and was always disappointed that it never caught on.
          Later when I started flying (Cesna 150s and 180s) I kind of forgot about the Hornet but recently I have been hoping to run across one. Maybe even fly it someday DrBob

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          • #65
            Originally posted by monte55 View Post
            ......
            I need a two stroke 30-35 hp range........strong but lightweight. ANYONE
            HAVE AN IDEA WHERE TO FIND AN ENGINE LIKE THIS? Also what size engine in CC equates to this hp . I'm thinking maybe off a dirt bike or the like.
            You can easily get 35+ HP out of a modern 250. The main problem with using a motocross bike sourced 2 stroke is that unless you machine your own crankcase or find some pre-1970's vintage oddball it's going to have an integral 5 or 6 speed transmission. You can't shift a helicopter transmission in midair, so those extra gears are wasted weight in your application and do nothing but add an unnecessary point for potential failure.

            Jet-ski engines don't have an integrated transmissions, but they are almost all liquid cooled. Liquid cooled = more weight.

            A chainsaw engine would fit the bill, but you'd need at least 4 or 5 "hot rodded" chainsaw engines to come close to making 30 HP. It's a plausible, albeit ridiculously overcomplicated solution to use multiple engines.

            An air cooled snowmobile or better yet an ultralight aircraft engine would be ideal.

            Rotax 447 meets/exceeds your specs. 40HP, air cooled 2 stroke twin weighs about 60 lbs and is available with several different ratio reduction gearboxes. http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_en...otax_447UL.htm (I am not affiliated with the seller in any way. Link is provided for reference purposes only - notice prices are in $Cad) With a little searching you can find a used 447 for under $1000, so they aren't prohibitively expensive.

            The motorcycle chain drive doesn't seem like a good idea to me, I'd use a reduction drive intended for aircraft duty. Either a Gilmer belt drive or a gear reduction box. Again it's more expensive, but what's your life worth to you?

            My main concern about your project is that it appears nothing has been safety wired or drilled for the provision of safety wire/ cotter pins. One loose bolt on an aircraft can kill you even if you're still on the ground. Safety wiring or positive locking devices (such as cotter pins or locking clips) should be considered *mandatory* on all aircraft structural hardware unless you have a death wish.
            Last edited by MR.57; 01-21-2009, 02:41 AM.
            2007 Miller Dynasty 200 DX
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            • #66
              It is in the mock up stage now. All fasteners will be properly secured. Thanks for the input.................Nick
              Nick
              Miller 252 Mig
              Miller Cricket XL
              Millermatic 150 Mig
              Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
              2-O/A outfits
              Jet Lathe and Mill
              Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
              DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
              Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
              20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
              Propane Forge
              60" X 60" router/plasma table

              www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
              Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
              and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

              Comment


              • #67
                This is the coolest project. Good luck.

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                • #68
                  Been a while since you posted any updates, how's things progressing? Looks like a very cool project.
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                  • #69
                    Haven't done a lot lately. I've been busy trying to make a dollar. I have been taking things apart to loctite, drill and secure etc and that's time consuming. I'm very close to doing an engine runup with the head but without rotors very soon. Next is to make rotor blades and I'll almost be done. Then ground testing is in order.
                    Nick
                    Miller 252 Mig
                    Miller Cricket XL
                    Millermatic 150 Mig
                    Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
                    2-O/A outfits
                    Jet Lathe and Mill
                    Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
                    DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
                    Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
                    20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
                    Propane Forge
                    60" X 60" router/plasma table

                    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
                    Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
                    and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      You think when you're finished that if i coevr your gas you coudl fly up here and help me with my homemade CNC plasma table??? LOL LOL

                      Glad to see that you've not given up on this either way, I can't wait until the day I actually see a video on youtube of "monte55 flies his home made heli" LOL

                      keep it up and show us what ya got!!
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                      • #71
                        I haven't read all the posts here but, quick question. Are there pitch horns on the rotors? If not how are you overcoming gyroscopic precession?
                        Kenny
                        Although aviation has made the world a smaller place, it's still pretty hard to miss when you crash.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by airsickness View Post
                          I haven't read all the posts here but, quick question. Are there pitch horns on the rotors? If not how are you overcoming gyroscopic precession?
                          Kenny
                          It's canceled out by each of the counter rotating blades. One blade would experience it but not two.

                          Helicopter ATP/CFII A&P

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by monte55 View Post
                            Using the 3D program, here are some computer generated rotor blades I have been playing with. If this works, and I can actually make my own blades, it will have paid for the program.


                            Your build looks real nice, but take out an insurance policy, and two, wear lots of padding. Something like that can go real bad real quick. Im looking into building a powered parachute which looks pretty crash proof, even if the engine fails. Good Luck!
                            If you want peace, be prepared for war!

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                            • #74
                              Monte, it looks as if your well over the hump of committing yourself in this endeavor and do feel that with a good set of testing cycles in mind, success will be forthcoming.

                              Good show thus far.
                              LW

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                              • #75
                                Man, it's great to see this still going...
                                Very nice work Monte!
                                Last edited by turboglenn; 07-05-2009, 08:30 AM.
                                Dynasty 200DX
                                Hobart Handler 135
                                Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
                                Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
                                Hypertherm Powermax 45
                                Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

                                Comment

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