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  • One more possible Syncro 200 problem

    Hey Guys (& Gals),

    My neighbour asked me to make him a new box to hold the electrics and controls on his jaccuzzi. I decided I'd make him one from SS so that it wouldn't rot out like the present one has.. what a nightmare of a clusterfk.

    I've used some sheet .050 thickness and I think its 316 - not sure as it's scraps
    My torch parameters are as follows:
    - argon @ aprox 17-20cfh
    - 3/32 tung orange stripe (whatever that is doped with,I cant remember) pointed and repointed after each dip into the puddle...Arrrrgh!!!
    - regular cup. I have no lenses.

    - DCEN @ aprox 45 amps - DCEP @ 40A - AC @ 55A

    - Tung was prep'ed well, no anti sugar back gas or flux, and some filler rod (316), moving as fast as possible w/o losing the puddle or getting ahead of it &
    small swirl action to fuse the two peices together.

    My problem or what I percieve as my problem:
    while using DCEN, the electrode is balling and melting back to the cup...
    I'm thinking maybe I have it wrong so I switch to DCEP and the baling and melting back stops , but the arc is now all over the place and extremely difficult to control.
    Maybe I still have it wrong so I switch to AC just for sh ts and giggles... Now I'm getting somewhere. The puddle is nice and shiny and fusing well . For the most part the finished result is "okay" though somewhat black and nasty. I just cant seem to get that nice shiny weld bead I see others getting.. (theres a problem here for sure)

    I suspect two things. first is my ineptitude and the second is my still improperly functioning Syncro 200. Anyone else have an opinion of what Im doing wrong? I was under the impression that DCEP will burn out electrodes poste haste as the heat is concetrated mostly in the electrode rather than the work. This is correct isnt it??? If so why is the tip of my electrode globulating and receding at such a low current value while in DCEN? I thought I noticed this once before but I never payed any mind to it. Up to now I've been honing my Aluminum skills and haven't much left AC mode.. Anyway, if anyone has an idea what I'm doing or not doing.. I'd really appreciate your inputs.
    other wise I think my TIG is fubar- which would be par for my course....
    Thanks all.
    Rich.

    BTW- sorry 'bout the nasty photo's I'll see what I can do about getting some better shots. 1471 was AC and 1468 was DCEN/DCEP
    Attached Files
    Last edited by SignWave; 06-19-2008, 10:54 AM.
    Will it weld? I loooove electricity!

    Miller 251/30A spool
    Syncro200
    Spectrum 625
    O/A
    Precix 5x10 CNC Router12"Z
    Standard modern lathe
    Cheap Chinese mill that does the trick... sort of...
    horizontal 7x12 bandsaw
    Roland XC540 PRO III
    54" laminator
    hammer and screwdriver (most used)
    little dog
    pooper scooper (2nd most used...)

  • #2
    It almost looks like there is no gas. Do you have gas coming out of the torch ?
    Kirk Kopitzke
    Service Technician
    Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

    Comment


    • #3
      not holding my breath.

      there is gas flow. I can hear it and feel it. I think the machine is pooched, but im no TIG expert so I cant really be sure. I should trust that first instinct... everytime I dont I regret it...

      Correct me if Im wrong, but the beads should come out looking shiny with a bit of blue/gold color right?
      Will it weld? I loooove electricity!

      Miller 251/30A spool
      Syncro200
      Spectrum 625
      O/A
      Precix 5x10 CNC Router12"Z
      Standard modern lathe
      Cheap Chinese mill that does the trick... sort of...
      horizontal 7x12 bandsaw
      Roland XC540 PRO III
      54" laminator
      hammer and screwdriver (most used)
      little dog
      pooper scooper (2nd most used...)

      Comment


      • #4
        Can't say for the orange marked tung, but it's acting like pure. I used thoriated(red) on DC neg with no problem cept like you said, the dipping thing. Dc pos on the red is not good and AC not well. 100% argon for gas. So I guess I be clueless to assist.

        Comment


        • #5
          Gas Mix, Gas Quality?

          I wonder about your shielding gas. Is there a possibiliity that you got somethng other than pure argon by mistake? Could the LWS have given you the wrong mix? It's happened before.

          It could perhaps have a bunch of CO2 or O2 mixed in by mistake and that would cause some anomilies.

          Otherwise, it sounds as if your machine is stuck on DCEP. As you say, that will burn an electrode up quickly.

          Under normal circumstances, assuming that the electrode never gets dipped into the puddle, they should retain the point almost indefinitely.

          You didn't mention whether this was a new problem. I assume that you've had the machine for a while and it welded properly in the past. Was there something that changed...like lend the machine to a friend, changed gas bottle, lightning strike?

          What about your torch...I know they come with an air-colled torch from the factory. I have that torch and I added a liquid-cooling setup to my SW 200 and it was a real PITA to get all of the hoses and adapters together. Is your torch the standard one that comes with the machine or maybe a smaller replacement that's taking too much heat?

          I'm no expert and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night. This is just my 2 cents, FWIW.

          Good luck.
          Last edited by Synchroman; 06-21-2008, 10:09 AM.
          Miller Syncrowave 200
          Milermatic 252
          Lincoln AC/DC "Tombstone"

          Comment


          • #6
            I wonder about your shielding gas. Is there a possibiliity that you got somethng other than pure argon by mistake? Could the LWS have given you the wrong mix? It's happened before.

            Since alum also needs pure argon, try welding alum. That should check your gas.
            RETIRED desk jockey.

            Hobby weldor with a little training.

            Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz.

            Miller Syncrowave 250.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              post some pics please

              My torch is the air cooled variety and I will test ou that aluminum welding thing shortly as I have f uel tank to make for my boat project.

              Does anyone have some pics of a good stainless weld? I'd love to see how your welds compare to mine.

              Since the first posting Ive done some adjustments. Ive lowered the amps to about 25 and turned upi the gas to 25. the welds are "okay" but they are still black and nasty looking. Thanks for the input guys.. Much appreciated.

              SyncroMan, Im not sure if this is a neew problem or not. I really couldnt tell you as ive not used the machine to do a whole lot of SS. Mostly Alum.
              So, I still havent taken it in to have that counter looked at. I keep forgeting and then get sidetracked with something else.. Its one the "stupid things to do " list.

              Rich.
              Last edited by SignWave; 06-21-2008, 01:51 PM.
              Will it weld? I loooove electricity!

              Miller 251/30A spool
              Syncro200
              Spectrum 625
              O/A
              Precix 5x10 CNC Router12"Z
              Standard modern lathe
              Cheap Chinese mill that does the trick... sort of...
              horizontal 7x12 bandsaw
              Roland XC540 PRO III
              54" laminator
              hammer and screwdriver (most used)
              little dog
              pooper scooper (2nd most used...)

              Comment


              • #8
                Wrong polarity for one. you should be running DCEN. And you won't get a good arc flow after the tungsten ***** up on you. Balled up tungsten is for AC aluminum. So reshape it and try it again.
                The other thing is choice of tungsten. Get some red striped tungsten Thorated
                This works the best on a transformer based machine for steel.
                Now you said you where welding aluminum before right? Clean out the torch cup and gas body you may have something blocking or redirecting the flow of gas.
                Miller Syncrowave 200 W/Radiator 1A & water cooled torch
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                Over 20 years as a Machinist Toolmaker
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                Comment


                • #9
                  yup yup yup

                  I did all those things. Results are better but beads still look like sh-t. All black and dark looking. Tung is clean after each dipping. I am aware of what a good arc looks like and I am also aware of waht a bad arc does.

                  Im using thoriated tung too. DCEN as should be used... moving as fast as I can...w/o losing the puddle.
                  Will it weld? I loooove electricity!

                  Miller 251/30A spool
                  Syncro200
                  Spectrum 625
                  O/A
                  Precix 5x10 CNC Router12"Z
                  Standard modern lathe
                  Cheap Chinese mill that does the trick... sort of...
                  horizontal 7x12 bandsaw
                  Roland XC540 PRO III
                  54" laminator
                  hammer and screwdriver (most used)
                  little dog
                  pooper scooper (2nd most used...)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, here is my solution to your problem.I have tig welded pipe for 17 years and my first guess is you need a large gas lens and cup. Reason being is thin stainless takes longer to cool,Therefore it is reacting to the oxygen before it has the time needed to cool enough.The more shine the weld has the more time it has been sheilded from the atmosphere.With the small cup it does not sheild a large enough area and as you move forward the gas coverage leaves the weld while still too hot.
                    When I weld pipe I use the large gas lens and a 12 or 10 cup and keep the gas flowing as much as the regulator can allow.Most welders I have worked with use about this size also and despite what some have said about using too much gas flow because of turburlance causing sheilding problems,I keep the flowmeter wide open.This is because it helps cool down the weld,and keep wind from contaminating the weld. Sometimes if the flow meter doesnt put out enough we modify them or use an oxygen gauge.This is when I didnt have to pay for the argon.
                    2- XMT's 350 cc/cv
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                    2- 12-RC SUITCASES
                    1- 8-VS SUITCASE
                    2- 30 A SPOOLGUNS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank You!

                      Best thing that happened in three days! I'll give your suggestions a try and see if I can get some better results..

                      Anyboday want to trade Mondays??? Mine sucked BIGTIME
                      Will it weld? I loooove electricity!

                      Miller 251/30A spool
                      Syncro200
                      Spectrum 625
                      O/A
                      Precix 5x10 CNC Router12"Z
                      Standard modern lathe
                      Cheap Chinese mill that does the trick... sort of...
                      horizontal 7x12 bandsaw
                      Roland XC540 PRO III
                      54" laminator
                      hammer and screwdriver (most used)
                      little dog
                      pooper scooper (2nd most used...)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        On stainless you only weld very short distances and then let it cool or it will sugar (turn black) if you let it get too hot.
                        I welds more like steel. You might play with some steel for a bit as well.
                        If you are used to aluminum tig it is hard to make yourself do those little stainless welds.
                        It just sounds to me like you are simply letting it all get WAY WAY too hot.
                        You may need to back purge as well.
                        Possibly you may have gotten ahold of some funky material??
                        To me stainless is a slow process...nothing you weld as fast as you can go.
                        Different animal for sure.

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                        • #13
                          I did some more welding today. I turned up the gas, lower the heat, repointed the bit after every "dip' and moved as fast as i could. REsults were somewhat better but still hurting. My welds looked a bit shinier but still dark.
                          not as much sugar. I dont understand why this is so dificult. You'd figure doing aluminum would be harder... I think too that the filler rod i was using may have been too large. 1/16th rod on .050" metal? Anyway the melting of the electrode in -DC was my on doing. too much amps and I dipped it more than once. I see that stainless is not as forgiving as Aluminum when the electrode gets contaminated.

                          From todays self lessons, I managed to get some very small beads that looked sor of shiny. Haardly used any filler except when I blew out the seam..must keep practicing.. Thanks for your suggestions guys.. I took them all into account today and for the most part my results imporved. Still ugly as **** welds but better thna yestedays.
                          Will it weld? I loooove electricity!

                          Miller 251/30A spool
                          Syncro200
                          Spectrum 625
                          O/A
                          Precix 5x10 CNC Router12"Z
                          Standard modern lathe
                          Cheap Chinese mill that does the trick... sort of...
                          horizontal 7x12 bandsaw
                          Roland XC540 PRO III
                          54" laminator
                          hammer and screwdriver (most used)
                          little dog
                          pooper scooper (2nd most used...)

                          Comment

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