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  • #16
    If you have really big holes, or ones on the bottom, I'd cover them with some tape. Otherwise, they sell dry ice in pellet form for medical use (transporting specimens, etc). I got mine from work when I was using it last, but we didn't spend much and most of that was on the delivery. If you wanted a little cooler full, I bet they wouldn't charge ya.

    With what argon fills cost these days, I'd use that before I pissed away good shielding gas for a back-purge.
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    • #17
      tig welding stainless

      the condition you see inside your tank is called sugaring and it is a tell tale sign that you didnt purge while welding your root in.it is a weakened joint because of the atmospheric contamination that causes it.wire wheel brush it and grind then repass without filler to burn out any impurities then after cooling try with filler and dont crank the amps too high .but move quickly,let me know how it works out for you. i have lots of pictures of my ss projects if it will help.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by man of steel View Post
        the condition you see inside your tank is called sugaring and it is a tell tale sign that you didnt purge while welding your root in.it is a weakened joint because of the atmospheric contamination that causes it.wire wheel brush it and grind then repass without filler to burn out any impurities then after cooling try with filler and dont crank the amps too high .but move quickly,let me know how it works out for you. i have lots of pictures of my ss projects if it will help.

        I wonder after reading your post that the solar flux even worked. Meaning the fittings, and back side of the welds I pasted with solar flux had allot of sugaring as well. Thank you for post, it has helped me understand what is going on with my tig welding. If you got pictures of your projects, I would really like to see them to get a better understanding of whats going on, if its not too much trouble.

        One thing that I think is also the problems, is that, and tell me if Im wrong, but I went on the miller website, and used there tig calculator because I felt that all the tig welds were burning too hot even with the amps turned down to 65 amps.

        Come to find out the tig calculator states to use a 1/16 inch diameter tungsten, and this whole time Ive been using a 3/32 inch diameter tungsten. Would this make a differnence and the cause of my burn throughs?

        I bit the bullet today and with the advice of some bought a Y connector shutoff, and another length of gas hose to back purge.

        Question, how do you guys postion the hose to back purge, or have you fashions some kind of device that clamps onto the back of the weld area with magnets to purch a specific spot?

        Im confused, should I just position the argon hose to just let the argon flow against the back wall, or rig something up?

        Would securing some purge device with magnets disrupt the tig current?

        Sorry for all the questions, the school I went too didnt cover this.

        That is real interesting with dry ice. How close would the ice have to be, or can I throw a block of it into the keg Im welding?
        If you want peace, be prepared for war!

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        • #19
          The dry ice sublimates rather rapidly at room temp (the boiling point is -107F), and it turns directly into CO2 gas. You wouldn't want the dry ice next to the weld because of the temp differential, but it'll boil off pretty quick once the temp rises and it will produce a lot of volume, and can build quite a bit of pressure, so you don't want it sealed up!

          We used to take surplus dry ice and put it in 20oz pop bottles. Nice little "pop" that resembles a shotgun report.

          With the argon back purge, basically, you do the same thing. Seal off the holes so you can fill the keg with gas. Once the air is all displaced, you weld.
          Syncrowave 250DX
          Invison 354MP
          XR Control and 30A

          Airco MED20 feeder
          Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
          Smith O/A rig
          And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

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          • #20
            Thanks fellas, I love this forum, lots of information out there. I just so happen to have SS Flat bar and tubing in the garage, so Im gonna rig it up. Thanks again.


            Could the 3/32 tungsten be the cause of the spot burning too hot, and would going down to the 1/16 tungsten like the miller tig calculator says make a big difference?, if so I gotta order some now, because I got a SS project coming up.
            Last edited by usmcruz; 05-01-2008, 07:44 AM.
            If you want peace, be prepared for war!

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            • #21
              re y connector and repair of keg

              hey usmcruz,hows it going my friend,if i can offer you some advice try to stay away from y connections into the same hose that feeds your torch, it will not regulate evenly or precisely and you may open a different can of worms altogeather.if you can set up a seperate bottle for purging with its own lines and regulator. as for youe patch, for a proper repair, and it may not be as critical(not sure if the kegs hold much pressure ,but it would be best to cut out any cracking etc ,almost make it a boxed shape cutout and then fit the same gauge of metal into the opening secure it flush on one end, then tack it and move along keeping the material flush all alonguntil you have tacked it securely all round. hen go around and add tacks everywhere as stainless has a bad tendency to shrink and then go for doing your root pass, cool between and fill and cap passes afterward but try to let the keg cool between passes. ever need any help just drop me a line bro, hope that helps and i have all kinds of stainless pics of my work so youll feel confident in knowing my advice is good.,otherwise they wouldnt let me weld in the nuclear station i guess lol

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              • #22
                man of steel, thank you very much for your help. Its too late, I already installed the Y connecter. Is there a way to make it work?, I also picked up a Miller Foot pedal control today/1/16" tungsten and collets, and let me tell you that was the best money I spent on the Tig side of the house. I picked up the finger control and tried it and didnt like that the current didnt return to zero when I lifted my hand off the tumbler like when you lift your foot off the pedal control. I returned it, and got the foot control instead.

                The guy at the welding supply store tried to sell me on the finger control, saying that I would need it for out of position welding, but I told him If I need to weld out of position I'll put the foot control between my a$$ cheeks!! , he stopped arguing with me and sold me the foot pedal for some reason. Im pretty handy, and Im sure If I needed to weld out of position I could rig up something with the foot pedal.

                How can I look at your pictures?

                By the way did you get the last thing I sent you through PM?
                If you want peace, be prepared for war!

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                • #23
                  That dry ice idea is a good idea, I may have to try that sometime. I did a homebrew keg for a guy, I sealed up all the holes with tape and purged the keg with 75/25 from my mig welder. I worked pretty good. Here are some crappy pics:







                  You should be able to do something like this with 3/32 tungsten. A nice fine point and good heat control and you are set. I've become a big fan of gas lenses recently too, you can increase the stickout and decrease the gas flow.

                  As far as cleaning the inside with nitric acid, I'd really like to get a hold of some but can't find anywhere local that sells it. If anyone has any suggestions on where to find it and how to apply it I'd be all ears

                  -Josh
                  www.facebook.com/browndogwelding

                  Blog at TheFabricator.com

                  www.browndogwelding.com

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jdustu View Post
                    That dry ice idea is a good idea, I may have to try that sometime. I did a homebrew keg for a guy, I sealed up all the holes with tape and purged the keg with 75/25 from my mig welder. I worked pretty good.

                    Those welds look pretty good Josh. I got a question though, if you purged the keg, and taped it off, how did you keep the argon from escaping through the 1/2 inch coupling, and around the 1/2 inch coupling you were welding up.


                    As far as the acid goes, you can either leave a thick paste of barkeepers friend which is used to reppasivate Stainless Steel, or you can use a chemical called "ACID #5" from 5 star chemicals. Its made for stainless steel, and instead of diluting the acid paint it on straight, but wear gloves, because it will eat you to the bone.
                    If you want peace, be prepared for war!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by usmcruz View Post
                      Those welds look pretty good Josh. I got a question though, if you purged the keg, and taped it off, how did you keep the argon from escaping through the 1/2 inch coupling, and around the 1/2 inch coupling you were welding up.


                      As far as the acid goes, you can either leave a thick paste of barkeepers friend which is used to reppasivate Stainless Steel, or you can use a chemical called "ACID #5" from 5 star chemicals. Its made for stainless steel, and instead of diluting the acid paint it on straight, but wear gloves, because it will eat you to the bone.
                      I set the keg flat on my bench, and I set a heavy bolt and a large washer into the boss to cover the hole. I'd do that on the "hot" one, and tape off the rest.

                      I'll have to check out that Acid #5. I've got some of the barkeepers friend, but I didn't leave it on very long. I may try that again too.

                      -Josh
                      www.facebook.com/browndogwelding

                      Blog at TheFabricator.com

                      www.browndogwelding.com

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                      • #26
                        Here are a couple pics he sent me of the inside of the keg. It wasn't a perfect shield, but it worked ok. He had cut the holes before he gave it to me and they were oversized, so the gap didn't help matters.

                        -Josh
                        Attached Files
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                        Blog at TheFabricator.com

                        www.browndogwelding.com

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                        • #27
                          I dont let any of my customers cut the holes. For the first 3 jobs I did on kegs the holes were already cut, and pretty ugly looking. From then on out I just tell them to leave the keg alone and I will do the rest. I use a 5/8 conduit punch, and then I open the hole just a little bit with a dremel to get a tight fit that will keep the fitting in one place so that I can tack it up. Works pretty good, and so does the ghetto back purge assembly. You can take the man out of New York, but you cant take the New York out of the man.
                          If you want peace, be prepared for war!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by usmcruz View Post
                            I dont let any of my customers cut the holes. For the first 3 jobs I did on kegs the holes were already cut, and pretty ugly looking. From then on out I just tell them to leave the keg alone and I will do the rest. I use a 5/8 conduit punch, and then I open the hole just a little bit with a dremel to get a tight fit that will keep the fitting in one place so that I can tack it up. Works pretty good, and so does the ghetto back purge assembly. You can take the man out of New York, but you cant take the New York out of the man.
                            Yeah, I usually like to fit everything myself. I do a lot of repair welding at my fulltime job, and most folks don't have a clue how a joint should be prepared. But they try, and they can't figure out why I need to redo it

                            Originally posted by Iron Head
                            Just have to ask, what is a ghetto back purge assembly?
                            I think he's referring to the solar flux.

                            Edit: This is what he is referring to -http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/showthread.php?t=12989
                            Last edited by jdustu; 05-10-2008, 12:23 PM.
                            www.facebook.com/browndogwelding

                            Blog at TheFabricator.com

                            www.browndogwelding.com

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Iron Head
                              Just have to ask, what is a ghetto back purge assembly?

                              You like my back purge assembly, it could be yours for 10 simple payments of $1, and if you call now within the next 3 minutes I will even throw in the duct tape attached to it free of charge!
                              If you want peace, be prepared for war!

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                              • #30
                                FWIW, the sugaring I have seen is from overheating. Overheating causes the carbon to precipitate from the SS. You can see this by taking a coupon of SS and running a bead using a little too much heat. Then run another bead with less heat. Depending on the thickness, you may be under 50 amps. If you can use pulse, you will run cooler. Also, they make rods with an "L" designation, which designates low carbon.
                                Last edited by Bart Carter; 05-15-2008, 08:53 AM. Reason: spelling

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