Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Aluminum welds in question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Aluminum welds in question

    I finally took pictures of the welds that I am asking about; some are shiney and some are dull looking. I have gotten a few opinions about which is better but I figured if you could see the welds it might be easier to answer my question. Also, if you have any suggestions on how to improve the welds (like the one in my picture) please chime in. Nothing has been done to the welds since they were done (no brushing etc).
    The reason the welds look different is I was trying different speeds, and dipping the filler.


    Syncro 200 TIG
    1/16 inch red tungsten
    1/16 inch 4043 filler rod
    approximately 70 - 80 AMPS
    balance on 7
    No pulse
    18 CFH argon
    Attached Files
    Nick
    Miller 252 Mig
    Miller Cricket XL
    Millermatic 150 Mig
    Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
    2-O/A outfits
    Jet Lathe and Mill
    Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
    DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
    Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
    20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
    Propane Forge
    60" X 60" router/plasma table

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
    Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
    and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

  • #2
    Nick,

    Just a few comments/recommendations.

    Looks to be about 1/8" material you're working with.

    1. Lose the Red tungsten. Thoriated will splinter in an AC arc. OK for mild steel or SS. Try a stick of 2% Lanthanated. Diamond-ground will send you a sample of 1.5% Lan (not sure they have 2%) 2nd choice would be Ceriated.

    2. Use 3/32 filler

    3. Use a 3/32 tungsten.

    4. Increase your amps

    5. Move faster.

    6. More consistency--puddle/dip, puddle/dip, puddle/dip, etc.
    Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200 DX
    Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
    Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
    Hobart HH187
    Dialarc 250 AC/DC
    Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
    Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
    PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
    Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
    Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
    More grinders than hands

    Comment


    • #3
      pores, splatter?

      Hi, never welded Aluminum... yet... but I wanted to ask a question maybe the guys could answer at the same time. Looking at the pictures I notice more pores and splatter than I would expect with aluminum. Is this due to the sheilding or contaiminents or just normal before brushing?

      Just curious because I am trying to work toward getting an ac tig so I can weld Al.

      Looks like your getting there Nick!
      John

      Thunderbolt AC/DC
      MM 175
      Maxstar 150 STL
      Blue Star 185 DX
      Spectrum 375

      Comment


      • #4
        OK...in my opinion you have "graduated"
        You have proven you can run a bead. That is all it proves tho unless you are making one bead and then stepping back and allowing that piece to cool back to room temp. That will definetly make you welds look the same. Heating the part by running several beads on it would make you have to turn the heat down as you go and is giving you bad habits.
        Make joints and actually weld something. Even if if is that piece with all the welds ground flat and then cut into pieces to play with it would be better than just puddling around. You'll learn WAY more too. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!

        www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
        Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
        MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
        Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
        Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

        Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
        Miller 30-A Spoolgun
        Miller WC-115-A
        Miller Spectrum 300
        Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
        Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SundownIII View Post
          Nick,

          Just a few comments/recommendations.

          Looks to be about 1/8" material you're working with.

          1. Lose the Red tungsten. Thoriated will splinter in an AC arc. OK for mild steel or SS. Try a stick of 2% Lanthanated. Diamond-ground will send you a sample of 1.5% Lan (not sure they have 2%) 2nd choice would be Ceriated.

          2. Use 3/32 filler

          3. Use a 3/32 tungsten.

          4. Increase your amps

          5. Move faster.

          6. More consistency--puddle/dip, puddle/dip, puddle/dip, etc.
          Sundown

          The material is .062 " extruded alum. Don't know what grade if there is a grade for extruded. Do you still say 3/32 tung and filler for this thin of material?
          I ordered samples from Diamond Ground on 3-22-08. Haven't heard from them yet. E mailed them day before yesterday to see if they got my request. Still no reply. Thanks for the comeback.
          Nick
          Nick
          Miller 252 Mig
          Miller Cricket XL
          Millermatic 150 Mig
          Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
          2-O/A outfits
          Jet Lathe and Mill
          Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
          DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
          Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
          20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
          Propane Forge
          60" X 60" router/plasma table

          www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
          Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
          and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
            OK...in my opinion you have "graduated"
            You have proven you can run a bead. That is all it proves tho unless you are making one bead and then stepping back and allowing that piece to cool back to room temp. That will definetly make you welds look the same. Heating the part by running several beads on it would make you have to turn the heat down as you go and is giving you bad habits.
            Make joints and actually weld something. Even if if is that piece with all the welds ground flat and then cut into pieces to play with it would be better than just puddling around. You'll learn WAY more too. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!
            That was just trying to see what speed and dip procedure does to the bead and to see what I am doing different from bead to bead that makes it shiny or dull. I have been trying T joints with alum rectangle box and 3/4" 6063
            tube also T joint. Don't look great, but beats the he11 out of what I did a week ago. To me the fillet welds are too big. It's like I can't focus the arc in the seam but both pieces wide, and as the puddle forms, I fill the middle. Maybe
            a transformer machine can't focus that narrow as compared to inverter as I've heard. I've never tried an inverter. Maybe someone could post pics of these joints welded with the same or same type Tig as mine. Ive seen great welds on the site but if they're using a $6000 machine, how could I compare.
            Nick
            Nick
            Miller 252 Mig
            Miller Cricket XL
            Millermatic 150 Mig
            Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
            2-O/A outfits
            Jet Lathe and Mill
            Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
            DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
            Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
            20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
            Propane Forge
            60" X 60" router/plasma table

            www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
            Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
            and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

            Comment


            • #7
              Wow,

              That drilled hole is misleading. Maybe my eyes are failing me. Looks thicker.

              Regarding the tung and filler. Yes, I'd still recommend 3/32. I only use 1/16 on "really" thin material.

              The smaller filler is requiring you to dip too frequently and the heat is spreading over the material. Some of the beads show consistency, but too closely spaced (too small a filler).

              Increase filler size, increase the amps, move faster and I think you'll see the improvement you're looking for.

              Think about mig welding aluminum. You have to run "much" faster with aluminum than you do with steel.
              Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
              Dynasty 200 DX
              Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
              Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
              Hobart HH187
              Dialarc 250 AC/DC
              Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
              Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
              PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
              Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
              Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
              More grinders than hands

              Comment


              • #8
                I've been learning to do alum. the past year. The best advice is what FusionKing already said and that's to start welding actual joints. I can make nice beads all day long on a flat plate but to do it on a butt joint or fillet joint is much more difficult and will actually teach you something practical. I use 3/32" lanth. sharpened to a blunt point with 1/8" filler on stuff as thin as 1/16". One of the best things I did though was to add a gas lens and 7/16" cup. I can't seem to weld anything without a gas lens now. It helped tremendously and will give you that nice clean shiny bead. BTW, extruded alum. is typically 6061 or 6063 alloy.

                Craig

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nick,

                  I guess everyone has their opinion of what it takes to be a good aluminum tig welder. I can assure you though, that the Sync 200 is a good machine to learn on. Within it's capabilities, it's not wanting for much. The inverters have some advantages (I'd love to have a Dyn 350) but for the stage you're at, the Sync is probably a better machine for learning. It's technique, not machine.

                  To me, unless a guy has an unlimited supply of scrap aluminum, you should start your tig welding with "cheap" mild steel. Torch/filler handling should be second nature (timing) before one advances to aluminum. Same principle as learning with ox/ace before moving to tig. Those who learned ox/ace and then moved to tig found the transition much easier. Same thing for steel to aluminum.

                  Once the tig beads are consistant on flat stock, then the move to joints is the logical next step. From there you move to pipe/tubing and out of position work. It's all a logical sequence if you think about it.

                  Tig welding is a conditioned reflex action. If you're still "thinking about it", you've still got a ways to go. The best tig welders I know are generally not good at explaining what they're doing. It's second nature to them. When asked their response is "just runnin a bead".

                  Practice, practice, practice
                  Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                  Dynasty 200 DX
                  Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                  Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                  Hobart HH187
                  Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                  Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                  Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                  PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                  Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                  Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                  More grinders than hands

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here's a pic of one of my fillets. I've been Tigin' aluminum for a while now and still have days where I hate it, but it definetly gets easier with practice. I usually use 1/8 lanthanated tungsten, 3/32 filler, balance on 7, 10cfh with a gas lens on a syncrowave 250. The piece is 1/8 or 1/4 6061 Al tube with 5356 filler. I switched to 75% argon 25% helium a couple months back and it was the best thing I have done in a while. It allows me to go alot faster, hotter, more focused arc. Good luck!
                    Attached Files
                    Welders do it hotter!!
                    www.Munsonworks.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Clavacle, That looks real good. I called my LWS to see if they carry the AR/HE mix. They do but he said its no good for thin aluminum. He's a salesman though and I don't know if he's just repeating what he's heard or if he really knows. Have you tried that mix on thinner material than 1/8? You guys are great to be willing to help people out. Adam
                      Webb's Welding and Repair LLC
                      MM210 w/a 3035 spoolgun
                      Syncrowave 250
                      Spectrum 625
                      Trialbazer 302 w/HF
                      http://webbsweldingandrepair.com/home

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        From the hobby side of the tracks

                        I don't see the 'oxide cleaning zone' along the edges of your welds. And I think I'm seeing light 'peppering'. I just read in the Miller TIG Tips that means to turn the AC balance toward more cleaning.

                        My SW250 AC balance is 0-10 and is stenciled '3 for balanced and DC'.
                        0 is max clean, 10 is max penetration. I don't know how the 200 is marked.

                        FWIW: I'm a hobby weldor with a SW250. I think, at my level, tungsten type doesn't matter; it's an overblown issue. I use green or red because that what I was sold years ago. Sure the new stuff is better, but it doesn't matter to my brackets, widgets and gizmos. When I run out, I'll upgrade. Until you can run red long enough to get the little chrome b*lls on the tip, it doesn't matter; you'll be grinding your tung anyway.

                        But since the green forms a ball, it's not as good in a fillet as something that will hold a point. Red in my case, 2% lanthanated nowadays.

                        I hope I kept this in the context of a home hobby weldor. I do not want to contradict Sundown111, FusionKing and many others. I'm welding in the home garage, not NASA.

                        Edited: And; weld that hole in your practice piece.
                        Last edited by Craig in Denver; 03-18-2008, 03:37 PM.
                        RETIRED desk jockey.

                        Hobby weldor with a little training.

                        Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz.

                        Miller Syncrowave 250.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Craig.........who is your post directed to?
                          Nick
                          Miller 252 Mig
                          Miller Cricket XL
                          Millermatic 150 Mig
                          Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
                          2-O/A outfits
                          Jet Lathe and Mill
                          Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
                          DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
                          Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
                          20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
                          Propane Forge
                          60" X 60" router/plasma table

                          www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
                          Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
                          and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Nick:

                            The first two paragraphs, to you.

                            The rest of it was just aluminum 'thoughts', I guess.

                            Did I goof?
                            RETIRED desk jockey.

                            Hobby weldor with a little training.

                            Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz.

                            Miller Syncrowave 250.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by monte55 View Post
                              I finally took pictures of the welds that I am asking about; some are shiney and some are dull looking. I have gotten a few opinions about which is better but I figured if you could see the welds it might be easier to answer my question. Also, if you have any suggestions on how to improve the welds (like the one in my picture) please chime in. Nothing has been done to the welds since they were done (no brushing etc).
                              The reason the welds look different is I was trying different speeds, and dipping the filler.


                              Syncro 200 TIG
                              1/16 inch red tungsten
                              1/16 inch 4043 filler rod
                              approximately 70 - 80 AMPS
                              balance on 7
                              No pulse
                              18 CFH argon
                              Not bad. The red tungsten won't take up too much room in your scrap bucket. Do yourself a favor and put it there

                              Use lanthanated tungsten (1.5 or 2%)

                              Your technique looks to be ok- just keep on practicing

                              The porosity/contamination could be a breeze or fan in your shop blowing away your shielding gas

                              Remember that when practicing on one piece it will overheat and it is hard to wait on it to cool and the overheating will add to the frosted look.

                              You can tune your welds to the application or your desired appearance with your balance control. "7" is the normal for tig but do not be afraid to experiment

                              Also, add a little extra filler at the end of the weld. You do not want a crater at the end as the crater can lead to cracking

                              Griff
                              Last edited by griff01; 03-18-2008, 03:26 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X