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  • Aluminum welds

    Some of my welds are shiny when some have a dull cast to them. Both welds look good. It seems like the weld I ran a little hotter and faster was shiny compared to a slower travel and lower heat. Welds are the same size. Is one weld better than the other? Tigging on aluminum. Amps, gas flow, are identical. Only difference was the foot pedal and speed.
    Nick
    Miller 252 Mig
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    www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
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    and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

  • #2
    I was told/taught if your weld is too hot (foot down too hard or too slow a speed), it'll look hazy. Want a shiny weld? Control the right heat more.
    FusionKing: any advice?
    I'm not late...
    I'm just on Hawaiian Time

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bert View Post
      I was told/taught if your weld is too hot (foot down too hard or too slow a speed), it'll look hazy. Want a shiny weld? Control the right heat more.
      FusionKing: any advice?
      i can get a shiny weld slow or fast. even if i use my foot to pusle weld it still turnes out shiny
      miller 330 abp
      everlast 225lx
      airco 250a tig
      hobart handler 125 mig
      o/a torches

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      • #4
        Originally posted by monte55 View Post
        Some of my welds are shiny when some have a dull cast to them. Both welds look good. It seems like the weld I ran a little hotter and faster was shiny compared to a slower travel and lower heat. Welds are the same size. Is one weld better than the other? Tigging on aluminum. Amps, gas flow, are identical. Only difference was the foot pedal and speed.
        Originally posted by Bert View Post
        I was told/taught if your weld is too hot (foot down too hard or too slow a speed), it'll look hazy. Want a shiny weld? Control the right heat more.
        FusionKing: any advice?
        I think it has to do with the cleaning cycle of AC. Slower would mean more cleaning happening. I'm sure somebody like KB or SundownIII or Andy would give a much better explained answer tho and maybe a better reason.
        I usually weld a little slow anyhow unless it's getting pretty close to lunch or dinner time
        Hotter and faster and rythym make the best looking beads IMO and the HAZ would be smaller also.

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        • #5
          Fusion King,

          You got it. Run hot and run fast. No metalurgist, but suspect that it has something to do with prolonged heat changing the molecular structure of the aluminum.

          I'm not in their league, but the best anodized aluminum tig welders (tower builders) I've worked with are running at about 195A without a foot or finger amp control. Just a simple on/off switch on the torch. High amps breaks up the anodizing, creates a great bead, and limits the heat transfer. With towers, the welds are painted after welding for protection but the weld bead is shiny. The paint, as I said, is only to prevent oxidation since it's physically impossible to reanodize an entire tower. Some tower builders use 4043 but the better ones use 5356 even though it will not be reanodized.

          I've actually found, in most cases, that the Sync 250 is a little more forgiving of technique than the Dynasty's. Maybe it's just me. Good friend of mine (one of those experts) used to use a 250 and now has the Dynasty 300. Says he'd never go back. Guess I haven't used an inverter enough to fully take advantage of the freq. adjustments.

          Hope this helps.

          PS There was an excellent article written several years ago which circulated around the boards a few months back. In that article they interviewed several of the guys from Pipewelders (Fl Towerbuilders) who developed the bump techinique for welding anodized aluminum. (I posted a link at that time--do a search for anodized aluminum). The son of the owner of Pipewelders, Edison Irving, is a close friend of mine and taught me a lot about the technique.

          KP and Engloid are the two tiggers on the board who I have been most impressed with. Both their welding and understanding of why certain things happen in the bead. ASKANDY is probably there too, but I haven't seen as much of his work. If any of those three make a comment regarding tig, you can take it as gospel.

          Fusion King: Check out this link [url]http://archive.metalformingmagazine.com/1999/11/miller.pdf
          Last edited by SundownIII; 03-16-2008, 01:00 AM.
          Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
          Dynasty 200 DX
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          Hobart HH187
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          Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
          Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
          PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
          Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
          Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
          More grinders than hands

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          • #6
            One of the questions I had was...........is the shiny bead better than the dull
            bead other than looks. Is one stronger, less brittle, etc.
            Nick
            Miller 252 Mig
            Miller Cricket XL
            Millermatic 150 Mig
            Miller Syncrowave 200 Tig
            2-O/A outfits
            Jet Lathe and Mill
            Jet 7x12 horz/vert band saw
            DeWalt Multi Cutter metal saw
            Century 50 Amp Plasma Cutter
            20 ton electric/hydraulic vertical press
            Propane Forge
            60" X 60" router/plasma table

            www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTu7wicVCmQ
            Vist my site: www.nixstuff.com
            and check out some of my ironwork and other stuff

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by monte55 View Post
              One of the questions I had was...........is the shiny bead better than the dull
              bead other than looks. Is one stronger, less brittle, etc.
              One possible reason for the differance in bead appearance may be with your faster travel speed allowing your bead to cool with the argon shielding it before it's exposed to air. Slower speeds will (heat soak) your base material and not allow as rapid of cooling while shielded. If contamination is not an issue the frosting should be only on the surface and should generally not make a strength difference. The shiney appearance as you know is what you should strive for when everything is done right. Good luck

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              • #8
                I would go as far as to say that the PART with the shiney welds is a stronger PART because you kept more of the original temper...and that depends on the application.
                Try not to think so much... OK

                www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                Miller WC-115-A
                Miller Spectrum 300
                Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mikesparks View Post
                  i can get a shiny weld slow or fast. even if i use my foot to pusle weld it still turnes out shiny
                  OK, Mike; ya don't get off that easy.

                  What machine, make-model; x-former or inverter?

                  And what filler; 4043, 5356; 1/16, 3/32?

                  Something works for you and WE want to know what it is!
                  RETIRED desk jockey.

                  Hobby weldor with a little training.

                  Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz.

                  Miller Syncrowave 250.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FusionKing View Post
                    I would go as far as to say that the PART with the shiney welds is a stronger PART because you kept more of the original temper...and that depends on the application.
                    Try not to think so much... OK
                    Did some checking in the code books and could not find a weld defect classified under "dull or frosted appearance" For grins I called a friend of mine who is a CWI. If it is only a dull surface appearance it isn't considered a weld defect.

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                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=Craig in Denver;143098]OK, Mike; ya don't get off that easy.

                      What machine, make-model; x-former or inverter?

                      And what filler; 4043, 5356; 1/16, 3/32?



                      I think he has a Syncrowave 200. I agree with you, I think it would help to turn his balance down to about 4 . It looks like there is still some contamination from the black flakes and the looks of the weld. I sent him a PM if he keeps having problems. He is about 25 miles from me.

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                      • #12
                        Fusion King kinda hit the nail on the head.

                        If one would study aluminum tower failures, you'd find that the greatest amount of failures occur not in the weld itself, but in the base material adjacent to the weld.

                        Stands to reason that the less you change the composition of the base metal, the stronger the part will be. Back to the old run hot, run fast suggestion.
                        Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
                        Dynasty 200 DX
                        Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
                        Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
                        Hobart HH187
                        Dialarc 250 AC/DC
                        Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
                        Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
                        PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
                        Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
                        Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
                        More grinders than hands

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=bvweld;143104]
                          Originally posted by Craig in Denver View Post
                          OK, Mike; ya don't get off that easy.

                          What machine, make-model; x-former or inverter?

                          And what filler; 4043, 5356; 1/16, 3/32?
                          Originally posted by bvweld View Post
                          I think he has a Syncrowave 200. I agree with you, I think it would help to turn his balance down to about 4 . It looks like there is still some contamination from the black flakes and the looks of the weld. I sent him a PM if he keeps having problems. He is about 25 miles from me.
                          bvweld: Thanks for your support.
                          I was refering to post #3, where mikesparks said he always gets a shinny weld.

                          FWIW: The reason your guote of me didn't work, you forgot the {/quote] before your comment.
                          RETIRED desk jockey.

                          Hobby weldor with a little training.

                          Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz.

                          Miller Syncrowave 250.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Something works for you and WE want to know what it is!THAT'S RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!! SPILL THE BEANS, BUDDY!!!!!!!!!
                            If it is only a dull surface appearance it isn't considered a weld defect. Problem is, how do you know it's only surface and didn't penetrate deeper?
                            I'm not late...
                            I'm just on Hawaiian Time

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