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  • Synchrowave 200 electrical Malcraptions

    Syncrowave 200............

    WOrks great in DCEN and DCEP..........

    A/C , well, looks like a bad joke, I have arc coming from all sides of the tungsten, can't even make a bead.............

    The arc starts off strong, but just craps out, after about three or so seconds it will stop, for about a second then re-start, arc for one to two seconds, and repeat the pause, then crap out again, weaker every time until all you hear is Argon flowing.

    One hint is the 110/15 accessory plug only spins a grinder at about 40% of max speed, and only dimly lights a drop light.

    I'm not an electrician, so I admit I dont even know how to check the voltage , static or dynamic(under load), in a 220v/ 50a plug.

    I replaced the old receptacle on the circit............

    Not sure of the wire # but the individual (white, black, green) wires look to be about 3/16" each, and its about 30 ft long.............

    Do I need a bigger gauge wire?

    Is there an internal connection on the welder that I may need to check?

    Do I need to seek professional help? (electrician, psychiatrist, etc....)

    Help please, before I end up welding up a rocking chair out of 1 1/2 x 1/8
    angle (using DCEP SMAW , and 7018 rod of course) and rock for hours on end staring at my beautiful blue machine and laughing madly.
    Last edited by Blackbird455; 03-05-2008, 02:49 AM.
    SYNCROWAVE 200
    Atlas 618 lathe (vintage 1960) reconditioned DC
    Sioux 3/8 Pneumatic Reversible Drill
    Makita Everything else
    2400 square feet of Sanford and Son lookin shop space
    "Once the spoon flys, putting the pin back in won't solve anything"
    USA 15T, 15V

    www.myspace.com/blackbird455

    http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...5/DSC00356.jpg two cans, one welder

  • #2
    i would check the power befor starting the chair.
    sounds like a week power scorce.
    also check inside the dins conectors. make shore they are tight and getting good contact. i had a similer problem and it was loose dins. conection at the wire.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped
    sigpic
    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

    Comment


    • #3
      Get a electrician,before you burn the place down.
      you need 60 amps of power on the circuit and the wire to handle it.
      please! get some professional help or a friend that knows.
      you may have already did damage somewhere back towards your breaker box.
      or the machine its self

      If you have the proper primary 60amps and wire in the circuit is big enough # 6 or #8.
      you could have problem or setting wrong.



      Rich
      Last edited by Fortyfords; 03-05-2008, 05:49 AM.
      sigpic
      Love the power of Blue
      Millermatic 200
      Sync 200
      Lots of Tools!

      Comment


      • #4
        I know I have a problem, there is no setting on the 110v/15a for half a$$ !!

        Which panel on the SYNC 200 runner do you remove to verify the internal connections?
        Last edited by Blackbird455; 03-05-2008, 07:58 AM.
        SYNCROWAVE 200
        Atlas 618 lathe (vintage 1960) reconditioned DC
        Sioux 3/8 Pneumatic Reversible Drill
        Makita Everything else
        2400 square feet of Sanford and Son lookin shop space
        "Once the spoon flys, putting the pin back in won't solve anything"
        USA 15T, 15V

        www.myspace.com/blackbird455

        http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...5/DSC00356.jpg two cans, one welder

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Blackbird455 View Post
          I know I have a problem, there is no setting on the 110v/15a for half a$$ !!

          Not sure what your saying above.

          Which panel on the SYNC 200 runner do you remove to verify the internal connections?
          Facing the front of the machine ,the left hand side panel.


          This machine is 230v single phase.? correct?
          the 110/115v is off the transformer centertap.

          Do you have the correct input amps ?60amps and correct wire size.
          sigpic
          Love the power of Blue
          Millermatic 200
          Sync 200
          Lots of Tools!

          Comment


          • #6
            If you are not comfortable with electrical checks, I would hire an electrician to verify the power circuit for the welder.

            If the welder is new, you still have some warranty so you could have it checked. Even if not new, at this time, you need to have it checked since the symptoms to which you refer are certainly not correct.

            I have a near-new Syncrowave 200 and it is as smooth as butter on all polarities. Definitely, you have a voltage problem, either low voltage with the shop supply or with the circuit boards inside the machine.
            ===============================
            Oops! I just went back and re-read your post.....I'm concerned that you may not have 230 VAC wired properly in the plug THAT YOU REPLACED....(gulp).

            You should have 240-240 VAC across the two lines and 120 or so from each line to the ground pin. If you are somehow only feeding 120 VAC, that could be your problem. Get an electrician!


            Good luck!
            Last edited by Synchroman; 03-05-2008, 09:40 AM.
            Miller Syncrowave 200
            Milermatic 252
            Lincoln AC/DC "Tombstone"

            Comment


            • #7
              Ok,

              Its only a month old..............

              The plug and receptacle are wired identical, white in the center, black and green on either side.........right.

              about to go find a meter and check the V.
              SYNCROWAVE 200
              Atlas 618 lathe (vintage 1960) reconditioned DC
              Sioux 3/8 Pneumatic Reversible Drill
              Makita Everything else
              2400 square feet of Sanford and Son lookin shop space
              "Once the spoon flys, putting the pin back in won't solve anything"
              USA 15T, 15V

              www.myspace.com/blackbird455

              http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...5/DSC00356.jpg two cans, one welder

              Comment


              • #8
                Electrical

                Blackbird - You've been given some very good advice. I've spent over 30 years in the electrical industry and I wouldn't even consider helping diagnose your problem without seeing your setup with my own eyes. I don't know any other reputable electrician that would either.

                Setting up a circuit for a welder isn't at all difficult if you know what you're doing, but extremely hazardous if you don't.

                If you don't know anything about electricity, for heavens sake, get someone who does. Electricity is odorless, tasteless, and invisible. You get one shot at getting it right before you screw up some machinery or yourself. Also, with your limited experience the last thing you need to do is mess around inside the welder.

                Not trying to be a smart***, but just offering some common sense advice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Old sporty..... none taken....its all good,

                  Heres what I have found at this point........

                  In the breaker box, the green and black wires are going to the two screws on the 50amp breaker, and the white wire is going to a "Ground" bus terminal....................

                  this was wired 30 years ago,

                  the plug and receptacle that i replaced have the white in the center, and the green, and black on either side..........

                  What is wrong?
                  SYNCROWAVE 200
                  Atlas 618 lathe (vintage 1960) reconditioned DC
                  Sioux 3/8 Pneumatic Reversible Drill
                  Makita Everything else
                  2400 square feet of Sanford and Son lookin shop space
                  "Once the spoon flys, putting the pin back in won't solve anything"
                  USA 15T, 15V

                  www.myspace.com/blackbird455

                  http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...5/DSC00356.jpg two cans, one welder

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Green wire on the breaker? eeek

                    OK, you have a problem. First of all turn off the breaker.

                    Is the breaker panel the only disconnect for the whole place, is this a sub panel or main panel?

                    Are you sure the green wire goes to the breaker?

                    Look carefully at the wires that you describe and see if you can read the size on the jacket. Do not touch anything inside that panel. If the wires have a cloth cover, stop, call an electrician.

                    If the weldor draws 50A, the wires, all three, should be 6 gauge, 8 gauge is smaller than 6 not larger, if not, call an electrician.

                    So, What size is the wire?

                    Is the wire copper wire? If aluminum... call you know who

                    What size is the breaker. Breaker size is determined by the wire gauge. Never use a larger breaker than the wire can handle... aka fire

                    Is the breaker a double pole breaker, both levers trip together or double push in?

                    Go to the receptacle.

                    Test to make sure the receptacle is dead.

                    If you have no way to verify that that receptavle is completely dead, call an electrician or someone who knows how to use a tester. DO NOT assume that because the welder in question does not turn on at all that the receptacle is dead, it is obvious that it was not wired correctly and the one leg or the other may still be hot - who knows. At this amperage, you can do some serious welding at the least and kill yourself at the worst.

                    Check to see which wire goes to which pole on the receptacle. My guess is that the green goes to one pole the black to the other and the white to the ground - rounded center hole.

                    I am guessing based on the fact that you state that the green wire goes to one screw on the breaker and that the outlet worked correctly before.

                    This in NOT CORRECT. But it may not be your problem

                    The green is ALWAYS the ground and NEVER should go to the breaker, but if at the time it was wired everything went to the corresponding pole, no one would be the wiser. It should be corrected, but I do NOT suggest you work inside the panel if you have no experience.

                    Go to the plug that you recently added. loosen the screw or whatever you need to do to slide the cover back to check the wires. It should be wired white to one pole, black to other pole, green to ground; the center prong.

                    If this is the case this should not be your problem.

                    If you copied the colors that match receptacle and the receptacle was wired as noted above, you have been running 120V to your welder's ground.

                    If that is the case, you may or may have not done damage.

                    It sounds like whoever wired the receptacle putthe white with the whites on the neutral bus and used the remaining wires for the breaker.

                    Let us know what you find, do not turn breaker back on before you verify what you have.

                    I am guessing if all was well prior to the plug change that the plug is miswired.



                    John
                    John

                    Thunderbolt AC/DC
                    MM 175
                    Maxstar 150 STL
                    Blue Star 185 DX
                    Spectrum 375

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      oops

                      When i went back and re read your post saw your problem.

                      Rewire your plug.

                      The green is the ground, white and black go to each pole. Your receptacle is wired correctly, but they used the wrong colored wire.

                      Let us know how your welder is

                      J
                      John

                      Thunderbolt AC/DC
                      MM 175
                      Maxstar 150 STL
                      Blue Star 185 DX
                      Spectrum 375

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Blackbird send some pics of your plug you replaced and your breaker box so we can see how it wired.
                        Last edited by hytekredneck; 03-05-2008, 07:48 PM. Reason: misspell

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          should be black and white to the spades (sides) green center or 1/2 round
                          thanks for the help
                          ......or..........
                          hope i helped
                          sigpic
                          feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                          summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                          JAMES

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wire size

                            Ok I've seen lot of people recommending 6 awg for a welder on a 60 amp circuit Please note (and I'm knit picking here) that 6 awg thhn or thwn is NOT rated for 75 amps when in conduit. It's only rated for 65 amps. I say 75 amps due to a 125% factor for wire size. I build all my circuits so that the wire size will safely handle 125% of the maximum amperage the appliance is capable of pulling.

                            It goes like this: Welder is rated at 60 Amp max I'd pull 4 awg rated at 85 amps and install a 70 amp fused disconnect. Fuses protect the wire not the machine because it is the wire that will burn your house down. And you must add an additional 25% if using a breaker. Breakers typically are down graded by about 15% so that 100 amp breaker will pop at 115 give or take. and a 50 amp will pop at 57 also give or take.
                            Now I said I was knit picking and this is why. How often will the machine be operated at full load and for how long? Usually it's not much and not long.
                            And there is a give amount of safety factor built in to the wire so exceeding the rating a little bit for a limited amount of time should not hurt anything.
                            But I like my home and don't want something to happen to it and then find out my insurance will not pay up because the wiring powering my now black welder was "not to code"

                            So wire your stuff up with as much overage as you can afford. I know coper is expensive.
                            And size your breakers/fuses over what the machine will pull max and size your wire over that.
                            This way no one can ever say anything about bad wiring.
                            Kerry
                            Miller Syncrowave 200 W/Radiator 1A & water cooled torch
                            Millermatic 252 on the wish list
                            Bridgeport Mill W/ 2 axis CNC control
                            South bend lathe 10LX40
                            K.O. Lee surface grinder 6X18
                            Over 20 years as a Machinist Toolmaker
                            A TWO CAR garage full of tools and a fridge full of beer
                            Auto shades are for rookies
                            www.KLStottlemyer.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              sounds like it would be a good idea to have an electrician look over the hole setup for ya. always better to spend $60-$70 for a quick look then to suffer the loss if its not right.
                              wile there is always great advice on the net, its your house on the line. is keeping it safe worth $70.
                              thanks for the help
                              ......or..........
                              hope i helped
                              sigpic
                              feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
                              summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                              JAMES

                              Comment

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