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  • Tankless water heater

    Not much welding but a lot of copper joint sweating on this install: Tankless water heater, water softener, whole house water filer. Writeup and pics:

    http://www.savagesun4x4.com/offtopic/
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.savagesun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Bernard 200 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Band-saw/stand
    10 Angle Grinders 8, 4 1/2" -2, 7"
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet
    sigpic

  • #2
    Cool. You'll love it! - Endless hot water!

    Our gas bill has been 30%-40% lower each month since I installed ours last year.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TS-Off-Road View Post
      Cool. You'll love it! - Endless hot water!

      Our gas bill has been 30%-40% lower each month since I installed ours last year.
      Hey, I am looking forward to that
      Don
      Scottsdale, AZ
      www.savagesun4x4.com

      MillerMatic 211 AS
      Hypertherm PowerMax30
      Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
      Bernard 200 Amp Q Gun
      Milwaukee Band-saw/stand
      10 Angle Grinders 8, 4 1/2" -2, 7"
      DeWalt Chop Saw
      Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
      12 Ton Shop Press
      Optrel Satellite Helmet
      Miller Elite Helmet
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        location....

        Just a note to others who may be interested, note that the temperature of the incoming water (AZ) is critical to the gpm that he units can produce. Up north these are still useful but unlikely to service the entire house in the winter.

        John
        John

        Thunderbolt AC/DC
        MM 175
        Maxstar 150 STL
        Blue Star 185 DX
        Spectrum 375

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Handy560 View Post
          Just a note to others who may be interested, note that the temperature of the incoming water (AZ) is critical to the gpm that he units can produce. Up north these are still useful but unlikely to service the entire house in the winter.

          John
          Yes John and I do mention that in my writeup...that it favors gas fired and Southern states. That said they are used the world over except in the US, parts of Australia and Canada.

          But I must agree with you IMO.
          Don
          Scottsdale, AZ
          www.savagesun4x4.com

          MillerMatic 211 AS
          Hypertherm PowerMax30
          Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
          Bernard 200 Amp Q Gun
          Milwaukee Band-saw/stand
          10 Angle Grinders 8, 4 1/2" -2, 7"
          DeWalt Chop Saw
          Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
          12 Ton Shop Press
          Optrel Satellite Helmet
          Miller Elite Helmet
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Mine does fine in Michigan!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TS-Off-Road View Post
              Mine does fine in Michigan!
              Yes and I have gotten several comments from others up north like Mi and Wisconsin that have said the same exact thing....so I guess it works there too.
              Don
              Scottsdale, AZ
              www.savagesun4x4.com

              MillerMatic 211 AS
              Hypertherm PowerMax30
              Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
              Bernard 200 Amp Q Gun
              Milwaukee Band-saw/stand
              10 Angle Grinders 8, 4 1/2" -2, 7"
              DeWalt Chop Saw
              Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
              12 Ton Shop Press
              Optrel Satellite Helmet
              Miller Elite Helmet
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                in hot water...

                I am curious how well it does because I build houses in the Chicago area.

                It seems relative to your use and gpm requirements.

                I am very sure it works great for maybe one large bath and the kitchen or some other combination, but if you get into large baths with multiple shower heads, Jacuzzis and sevaral other baths etc... it all gets back to the gpm.

                Large units are are rated like 7 gpm at 45 degree rise, say from 60 to 105. If the incoming water is 40 in the winter you need a 90 degeree rise and the gpm falls to maybe the low 5's. I have done many baths that one shower head and a few body sprays and your at 10 gpm. not very green for sure, but you get the picture.

                Another consideration is the gas service. If you have adequate gas delivery, you stay at the specs. If you have a marginal supply and/or pressure, the performance starts to deteriorate. Example I saw the other day; plenty of hot water as long as the boiler was not firing at the same time.

                I have seen other builders use multiple units to overcome gpm limitations. This has its own issues with multiple flues, water piping from more than one location and more involved gas piping and gas service sizing...

                I think they are really coming along and are a great appliance for the right installation; definetely the trend for the future. I just wanted to make sure if someone decided to go for it, the would take the time to run the numbers.

                Let me know what kind of performance you are actually experiencing in those colder climates relative to the usage.

                Thanks,

                John
                John

                Thunderbolt AC/DC
                MM 175
                Maxstar 150 STL
                Blue Star 185 DX
                Spectrum 375

                Comment


                • #9
                  water tank

                  add a solar hot water heater to preheat the water and no problems .
                  Dynasty 200DX
                  maxstar 150

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Actually, even a tempering tank makes a big difference as much of the time it can be full of water warming to room temperature. Solar can be great too, but more equipment and plumbing to deal with.

                    The limitation with these tempering system is that it likely works 80 percent of the time, but that does not satisfy most people when it happens that they use all the tempered water and suddenly they are in a cold shower.

                    J
                    John

                    Thunderbolt AC/DC
                    MM 175
                    Maxstar 150 STL
                    Blue Star 185 DX
                    Spectrum 375

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      TS-Off-Road

                      What brand did you use?

                      Jim

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by modela View Post
                        TS-Off-Road

                        What brand did you use?

                        Jim
                        Bosch 125HX-NG

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Handy560 View Post
                          I am curious how well it does because I build houses in the Chicago area.

                          It seems relative to your use and gpm requirements.

                          I am very sure it works great for maybe one large bath and the kitchen or some other combination, but if you get into large baths with multiple shower heads, Jacuzzis and sevaral other baths etc... it all gets back to the gpm.

                          Large units are are rated like 7 gpm at 45 degree rise, say from 60 to 105. If the incoming water is 40 in the winter you need a 90 degeree rise and the gpm falls to maybe the low 5's. I have done many baths that one shower head and a few body sprays and your at 10 gpm. not very green for sure, but you get the picture.

                          Another consideration is the gas service. If you have adequate gas delivery, you stay at the specs. If you have a marginal supply and/or pressure, the performance starts to deteriorate. Example I saw the other day; plenty of hot water as long as the boiler was not firing at the same time.

                          I have seen other builders use multiple units to overcome gpm limitations. This has its own issues with multiple flues, water piping from more than one location and more involved gas piping and gas service sizing...

                          I think they are really coming along and are a great appliance for the right installation; definetely the trend for the future. I just wanted to make sure if someone decided to go for it, the would take the time to run the numbers.

                          Let me know what kind of performance you are actually experiencing in those colder climates relative to the usage.

                          Thanks,

                          John

                          I installed mine to save $$. It will supply a regular bath shower and the dishwasher or washing machine simultaneously. If I had a Jacuzzi tub or 3 baths with multiple shower-heads in each and dual dishwashers in my kitchen, I would not be so concerned with energy savings and it would obviously be pointless to use one of these units. For what they are inteded for, they work great!

                          BTW, My water supply is a 2" ground well +or- 30psi.
                          Last edited by TS-Off-Road; 03-04-2008, 12:30 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Handy560 View Post
                            I am curious how well it does because I build houses in the Chicago area.

                            It seems relative to your use and gpm requirements.

                            I am very sure it works great for maybe one large bath and the kitchen or some other combination, but if you get into large baths with multiple shower heads, Jacuzzis and sevaral other baths etc... it all gets back to the gpm.

                            Large units are are rated like 7 gpm at 45 degree rise, say from 60 to 105. If the incoming water is 40 in the winter you need a 90 degeree rise and the gpm falls to maybe the low 5's. I have done many baths that one shower head and a few body sprays and your at 10 gpm. not very green for sure, but you get the picture.

                            Another consideration is the gas service. If you have adequate gas delivery, you stay at the specs. If you have a marginal supply and/or pressure, the performance starts to deteriorate. Example I saw the other day; plenty of hot water as long as the boiler was not firing at the same time.

                            I have seen other builders use multiple units to overcome gpm limitations. This has its own issues with multiple flues, water piping from more than one location and more involved gas piping and gas service sizing...

                            I think they are really coming along and are a great appliance for the right installation; definetely the trend for the future. I just wanted to make sure if someone decided to go for it, the would take the time to run the numbers.

                            Let me know what kind of performance you are actually experiencing in those colder climates relative to the usage.

                            Thanks,

                            John
                            Being a retired engineer with time on my hands I did my homework like most things I buy I have researched well, very well. That said some of the questions you brought up I can address.

                            Yes it does depend upon your use and the gpm requirements and of course the "temp rise".

                            The unit I used the Nortiz 0751 can certainly do the job for the wife and I here at the house in AZ. Current water temp at the faucet is about 62 degrees. But I can assure you that the temp rises quickly, it is nearly 80 today and by mid-summer hot water is almost not needed as the cold water tap is no longer cold.

                            The units can be stacked quite easily and any plumber that knows which way water flows can do the install. Meeting your requirements for the homes you build can be done without much difficulty. I would get with the Nortiz folks and discuss with them your goals. Additionally by the sound of the houses you build, don't waste your time looking at anything other than the Noritz unit.

                            If you incorporate the tankless unit into the house plans there is a lot of money to be saved. 1) Hang the unit on an outside wall and save $$ on venting costs thru the roof. 2) Direct connect to the gas meter with a 1in pipe and keep the runs as short as possible. My run was only about 10 ft. I just punched thru the garage wall and ran it straight down the base of the garage for 8 ft and connected my flex-hose.

                            Me and a Jeeping buddy did the install and saving the $800 per hour the idiot plumber wanted for the "high tech equipment", "you know it has a computer control and we need to install that." YEA, you sure do, the install manual says you NEED TO PLUG the friggin thing into a 110 wall socket and they give you a 10ft cord, or you can get the optional 25 ft coord...DUH

                            Granted you do not have to plug in a gas hot water heater, and yes the unit is computer controlled, meaning you need to set the temp...real complicated, push the UP arrow to raise the temp and push the down arrow to lower it. And don't forget to push the On/Off buttom. Guess $800 per hour does buy what it used to

                            and that is it!
                            Don
                            Scottsdale, AZ
                            www.savagesun4x4.com

                            MillerMatic 211 AS
                            Hypertherm PowerMax30
                            Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
                            Bernard 200 Amp Q Gun
                            Milwaukee Band-saw/stand
                            10 Angle Grinders 8, 4 1/2" -2, 7"
                            DeWalt Chop Saw
                            Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
                            12 Ton Shop Press
                            Optrel Satellite Helmet
                            Miller Elite Helmet
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              These inline heaters certainly look interesting. For our situation I don't think we could get away with using them solo, but we haved thought about installing one before our hot water heater as a preheater. The water coming into the house here gets mighty cold in the winter, we all enjoy our hot showers at the end of the day, and we don't exactly have water saver shower heads.

                              Are there any electric versions out there, our house doesn't have natural gas?
                              Dynasty 200DX, first generation
                              Makita 5" grinder
                              Makita 14" abrasive saw
                              IR SS5L compressor
                              Whole bunch of hand/air tools.
                              and a wish list a mile long

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