Miller Electric

Welding Discussion Forums

Home » Resources » Communities » Welding Discussion Forums

The forum is currently undergoing maintenance and is in a 'read-only' mode for the time being. Sorry for the inconvenience.


  • If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Newbie With Question

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Newbie With Question

    Hello Everyone!

    I have been MIG welding, with and without gas, for the past two years. However, actual welding time in those two years has been pretty minimal. What I have learned is mostly from reading, and then trying to apply what I read. I've had mixed results, but I feel I'm improving with each project, practice session, or actual repair attempted. I'm definitely still a "beginner" at this!

    I have not yet built a welding table for my shop. I am still finishing the inside of the shop with insulation, plywood, etc. and then need to move equipment to their final spots, wire them up etc., etc.

    So in the mean time, is it possible/practical/safe, to weld on a wooden bench topped with fireplace type bricks? Since the table I would be working on would not be grounded, am I putting my self at risk for electrocution and how? Thank you all for your assistance.

    Chip

  • #2
    oh Yeah

    Yeah you should fine.

    Comment


    • #3
      ground your work piece

      Hi, Just make sure you ground the piece you're welding. It is actually better this way than grounding the table (in my opinion). Be sure to check the wood on the table after you are finished welding to make sure it isn't smoldering etc. I do all the welding I can outside under the natural light of the sun, I can see better plus I don't have to worry so much about burning the shop down.
      Thanks!

      Comment


      • #4
        "Grounding" means bonding to an earth-ground electrically, like the third prong on a grounding plug.

        If you are referring to clamping the WORK lead from your welder, that is not grounding. It is just one of the paths for the welding current. It is a WORK lead, not a ground lead. It can be any polarity, depending on the process you are using.

        For your machine, there is no need to "ground" the work or the table. Just make sure you have a good work lead connection back to the machine, either through a table with good weldment contact or directly.

        Comment


        • #5
          I would be carful welding in your wooden shop, be aware of where your sparks are going. I preferr a cocrete block shop. Make shure the bricks you are using for your table are not concrete. If they are the concrete will send little chunks blowing off in all d********s. this happens when the concrete gets hot or if you are using a cutting torch above them.
          Good luck

          Comment


          • #6
            Ac

            In my part of the country everyone around here refers to the work cable as ground..probably from so many using AC welders and then Ground would be correct (Right)
            Farris

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you each for your replies!

              I also try to weld outside if I can or if it is practical. But since it is winter, well, you know. I do keep a fire extinguisher nearby at all times when welding, grinding, cutting, etc. When I ordered a couple of sheets of metal siding the manufacturer put an extra sheet on the top and bottom of the banded stack to protect my order. These "freebies" will protect the plywood walls in the welding and grinding zones in my shop.

              I also understand what "earth grounding" means, and I understand what the "work lead" from the welder is. I previously thought the work table or work piece had to be "earth ground" as well as connected to the "work lead". I take it from your replies that "earth grounding" of the weld table or weld piece is not necessary.

              New Questions:

              So what if you need to lie on the ground or concrete to MIG weld something? Is there any chance of electrocution from this?

              Also, I've been watching these new TV shows where they are TIG welding on project motorcycles and cars. Every once in a while the welder gets "zapped", and then everyone else starts laughing. I did not think this was funny; I thought it could be deadly. What have they done to get "zapped" and why are they not dead or seriously hurt?

              Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experiences.


              Chip

              Comment


              • #8
                when you are laying on the ground/concrete you will be fine(i do it all the time for overhead) just try not to be in any water. I'm not sure about the tig thing

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by fyoung
                  In my part of the country everyone around here refers to the work cable as ground..probably from so many using AC welders and then Ground would be correct (Right)
                  Farris
                  Actually, even then it wasn't correct. When AC welding, you are still using two hots from the secondary side of a transformer.

                  I'll have to research to find out why "ground" became a common term, probably just because it was a clamp instead of what you held to do the job with.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've been shocked by welding current before. It is very painful. I was a assembling a billboard, and the work lead was connected to the bottom of the sign. We were working at the top, welding a piece to it. Well, I was holding the piece, which had wood and steel, to the sign while another guy was just about to weld it. Apparently, the wood was the only part of the part that was touching the sign, and the arc was struck on the metal part. So just before it formed the bead and connected itself electrically, I became the path of least resistance, DC thankfully. THAT's what you have to watch out for.

                    We've all welded on the ground. If you haven't, you aren't a WELDOR!!

                    I've never watched the fine examples of welding demonstrated on those TV shows, but I would imagine they were probably TIGging with high-frequency to keep the arc stabilized? You usually want to "ground" everything for this because HF likes to run over the skin of everything, including you, if you let it.
                    Last edited by MAC702; 01-31-2006, 12:41 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Let us know

                      Originally posted by MAC702
                      Actually, even then it wasn't correct. When AC welding, you are still using two hots from the secondary side of a transformer.

                      I'll have to research to find out why "ground" became a common term, probably just because it was a clamp instead of what you held to do the job with.
                      Mac, let us know when you find out. I've notice around here everyone still calls it a ground. I was out at a large fabrication shop a few minutes ago buying a few small pieces of flats and while i was there one of the guys was installing a new work clamp and i said to him what you up to and he said "Installing a new ground clamp" *LOL* I wanted to take a survey while there but they looked way to busy and the owner probably wouldn't have appreciated me bothering them. In your part of the country do you hear very many call them ground clamps?
                      Thanks, Farris

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by fyoung
                        In your part of the country do you hear very many call them ground clamps?
                        Oh yeah. And I've been known to slip myself when around others who call it that, because I was taught "ground" by my dad, too. But check your owner's manuals or current text books. They probably stopped using the misnomer, if they ever did.

                        I'd be interested in hearing about any books that DO use the misnomer, just out of curiosity. My Miller/Hobart manuals all say "work clamp." Just checked...
                        Last edited by MAC702; 01-31-2006, 01:24 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          around here

                          I'm affraid around here if I said work clamp they woundn't know what I was talking about..I say ground clamp too becaue that'a about all I've ever heard it called.
                          Thanks, Farris

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hey Mac, I belive the corecct way of spelling Welder is W E L D E R not weldor.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              See the third entry:
                              http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=welder

                              "weldor" used to be the common term, but has actually started disappearing in textbooks and even some dictionaries, part of the dummying down of the English language and society in general.

                              Look at the much more common word "operator." It would be a lot harder to convince everyone to start using "operater," wouldn't it? They mostly got away with it with "weldor," though.

                              A lot of books have switched entirely to the term "welding machine operator" to avoid the issue; chickens.

                              In general history of the English language, an "-er" was a machine, and an "-or" was a person, both of which did the same thing, in this case a welder (machine) and a weldor (person) both weld (verb.)

                              It had been determined by society that the English language is too difficult. This is the same society that endorses welfare and subsidizing. Enjoy your heritage!

                              EDIT: Interesting trivia: During the heyday of collect calling, AT&T got this great idea to compete with 1-800-COLLECT by using 1-800-OPERATOR. Well, someone else got the even better idea to register the number 1-800-OPERATER and they made millions by all the people thinking they were using AT&T, but had misspelled "operator."
                              Last edited by MAC702; 02-02-2006, 10:04 AM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X
                              Special Offers: See the latest Miller deals and promotions.